BQueezy

Prop 19: Legalize it?!

114 posts in this topic

oh crap...not again. this didn't go well last time.

but anyways, yeah, go ahead and legalize it. if nothing else, it'll be a 2 or 3 year experiment to see if the tax and crime rate benefits out-weigh whatever negativity comes out of it. if everything goes to hell and californians can't handle their shit, then it'll get repealed. my guess is that it'll be a good thing (at least partially), and 10 or 15 of the more progressive states will follow suit in the next five years and make revisions based on whatever didn't work in ca.

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So, what difference does legalizing it make if it'll still be illegal under federal law? I mean, I understand that it's a step in the right direction, but what can happen with state legalization if it's still illegal on the federal level? This is potentially a stupid question.

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I am going to be the enemy and say no.

This country doesn't need more people doing weed. I know plenty of people who haven't done it because its illegal. (including myself)

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oh crap...not again. this didn't go well last time.

but anyways, yeah, go ahead and legalize it. if nothing else, it'll be a 2 or 3 year experiment to see if the tax and crime rate benefits out-weigh whatever negativity comes out of it. if everything goes to hell and californians can't handle their shit, then it'll get repealed. my guess is that it'll be a good thing (at least partially), and 10 or 15 of the more progressive states will follow suit in the next five years and make revisions based on whatever didn't work in ca.

You wont have to wait and see. look at Amsterdam. and anyway its not like its hard to get a medical card.

I am going to be the enemy and say no.

This country doesn't need more people doing weed. I know plenty of people who haven't done it because its illegal. (including myself)

People are going to smoke/eat/etc it anyway, legal or not. what about the health benefits and the people who use it for medical treatment.. your brain has cannabinoid receptors.. if I'm correct there aren't alcohol receptors in my brain. plus hemp could save trees ,be made into biodegradable plastics, used as fuel, made into clothing, the seeds that don't contain any psychoactive substances can be used for cooking (high in protein) etc... the reason why its illegal isn't because it gets you high.

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lol i love when people say "doing" weed like it's heroin or something.

Although I think its obvious, i'll point out that I never implied smoking was anywhere near the severity of heroin.

People are going to smoke/eat/etc it anyway, legal or not. what about the health benefits and the people who use it for medical treatment.. your brain has cannabinoid receptors.. if I'm correct there aren't alcohol receptors in my brain. plus hemp could save trees ,be made into biodegradable plastics, used as fuel, made into clothing, the seeds that don't contain any psychoactive substances can be used for cooking (high in protein) etc... the reason why its illegal isn't because it gets you high.

First, as I mentioned before, yes people will still get high. But MORE people will get high if its legal. Guilt and fear are powerful.

Medical marijuana is already legal in Cali, if I am not mistaken. So that seems like a moot point.

I am unclear on why its illegal then?

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Although I think its obvious, i'll point out that I never implied smoking was anywhere near the severity of heroin.

First, as I mentioned before, yes people will still get high. But MORE people will get high if its legal. Guilt and fear are powerful.

Medical marijuana is already legal in Cali, if I am not mistaken. So that seems like a moot point.

I am unclear on why its illegal then?

where did you mention that? ( on the old boreds? not that this really matters)

"guilt and fear are powerful" ??? please specify..

I know medical is legal in cali.. I never said it wasn't.

And yes, you're unclear because you just like many others probably don't understand (or aren't educated about) the industrial uses of hemp.

example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tBjHTmojUc

Its illegal not only because of racism and the Mormon church.. hemp can be used for fuel,paper,clothing.. etc etc

Hemp would put many corporations out of business.

look up Harry J. Anslinger if you don't believe me.

I shouldn't have to explain this to someone debating whether a substance should be legal or not.

do some research & experiment with cannabis sometime.

propagandas a bitch.

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Even people who are law officials and probation officers that I know think that marijuana being illegal is a joke.

According to statistics, America imprisons more people per capita than anywhere else in the world.

A lot of that has to do with putting people away for petty drug offenses.

These people are non-violent offenders.

You legalize, decriminalize, and tax it...it's an interesting experiment.

Alcohol was once banned and that is, by far, more dangerous than marijuana.

With that said, I have never smoked marijuana and have no intention of doing it.

And if I ever have kids, I would never really want them doing it either.

But it's not something to get outraged about and be AGAINST it.

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And yes, you're unclear because you just like many others probably don't understand (or aren't educated about) the

Its illegal not only because of racism and the Mormon church.. hemp can be used for fuel,paper,clothing.. etc etc

Hemp would put many corporations out of business.

look up Harry J. Anslinger if you don't believe me.

I shouldn't have to explain this to someone debating whether a substance should be legal or not.

do some research & experiment with cannabis sometime.

propagandas a bitch.

First off, yes I was uneducated on the industrial uses, so thank you.

Second, how the law came into be doesn't mean the law itself is the wrong one. People have done plenty of right things for plenty of wrong reasons. As silly as the reasons Anslinger used to sell the law, its moot. The law has remained in existence for, what 70+ years, since it passed, and I dont think there is a single person who thinks race has anything to do with negative attitudes to it now.

Now, I have no problems with the plant. Only problems with its use as a recreational drug. As it is now, its readily available to high school/college students; and unless your an complete idiot, you are not getting in trouble for it. I don't see after your done those years of your life you SHOULD be smoking; unless you have a medical need.

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I am going to be the enemy and say no.

This country doesn't need more people doing weed. I know plenty of people who haven't done it because its illegal. (including myself)

Just because it's legal doesn't mean there's going to be a surplus of people smoking weed. Portugal decriminalized all drugs and they had a big drop is drug usage.

I can understand not smoking weed because you don't like it's effects on you or because it isn't for you, but not smoking it because it isn't legal? Really? Does that mean you want to smoke, but don't do it because the law doesn't allow you to? What if it's never decriminalized and you live your life wanting to smoke weed but don't because of some misplaced ideology of the 1930's.

I'm not going to glorify it, but I can honestly marijuana opened me up to new ideas and feelings that made me a better person.

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So, what difference does legalizing it make if it'll still be illegal under federal law? I mean, I understand that it's a step in the right direction, but what can happen with state legalization if it's still illegal on the federal level? This is potentially a stupid question.

Anyone?

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Just because it's legal doesn't mean there's going to be a surplus of people smoking weed. Portugal decriminalized all drugs and they had a big drop is drug usage.

Yes, I was also going to bring Portugal's approach up, which is quite interesting. It's been going on for about ten years now. I'm quite amazed by how far behind other countries are in their approach to recreational drug use and drug addiction. Although it is worth pointing out that the drugs are still illegal in Portugal, but the issue of drug use is viewed through a whole different lens, being seen as a healthcare and social issue rather than a criminal issue. Here a few articles I read the other day on the subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/05/portugal-drugs-debate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/05/portugal-decriminalising-personal-drug-use

I'll quote some relevant portions:

[T]he reality is that, despite liberalising how it regards drug possession – now largely an administrative problem rather than a criminal offence – Portugal has not become a magnet for drug tourists like Amsterdam, as some had predicted.

Nor has it seen its addict population markedly increase. Rather it has stabilised in a nation that, along with the UK and Luxembourg, once had the worst heroin problem in Europe.

Before the law, which decriminalised (or depenalised) possession of drugs but still prohibited their use, the story of drug addiction in Portugal was a familiar one. More than 50% of those infected with HIV in Portugal were drug addicts, with new diagnoses of HIV among addicts running at about 3,000 a year. These days, addicts account for only 20% of those who are HIV infected, while the number of new HIV diagnoses of addicts has fallen to fewer than 2,000 a year.

Other measures have been equally encouraging. Deaths of street users from accidental overdoses also appear to have declined, as – anecdotal evidence strongly suggests – has petty crime associated with addicts who were stealing to maintain their habits. Recent surveys in schools also suggest an overall decrease in drug experimentation.

At the same time, the number of those in treatment for their addiction problems has risen by about a third from 23,500 in 1998 to 35,000 today – helped by a substantial increase in available beds, facilities and medical support – with many going on to methadone replacement programmes. The consequence is that perhaps as much as €400m (£334m) has been taken out of the illegal drugs market.

"You have to remember," [head of treatment at the Centro das Taipas, Dr Miguel Vasconcelos] says, "that the substances are still illegal; it is the consequences that are different." And for those arrested in possession of drugs for personal use, that means not a court appearance but an invitation to attend a "dissuasion board" that can request – but not insist upon – attendance at facilities such as the Centro das Taipas for assessment and treatment. "They evaluate if someone is ill or a recreational user, if a person uses sporadically," says Vasconselos. "Even then people have a choice. People can refuse to attend the dissuasion board."

For many, he believes, the experience can be cathartic and he admits being surprised by how open many of the clients who have come to his facility via that system have been.

Now everyone who is caught with drugs must go before one of the 20 boards in the country to be categorised as either a recreational user, someone with a developing problem, or an addict. And while some 30% choose to refuse to appear at the first summons, most – when threatened with a fine for disobedience – eventually attend.

Capaz has been involved since the very beginning and is struck by two things. The first is how Portuguese society has come to accept that addicts and drug users should be treated as a social rather than a criminal problem. The second, he explains, is that under the old criminal system all of those caught were supposed to be equal before the law. "With this system," he explains, "We do it the other way. We can apply the law in a way that fits the individual."

Indeed, the law recognises that for addicts certain sanctions are not appropriate. While recreational users can be fined, the law prevents addicts from having a financial penalty imposed for fear that in trying to raise the fine they might be driven to commit a crime.

Outside...I encounter Fernando Almeida, 31, who has been a heroin addict since he was 19. A thief – who stole to support his habit – he was recently released from prison and found a place at this centre.

When he arrived six months ago, he weighed 55 kilos. These days he weighs 73kg and appears both lucid and motivated. "In the old days I used to get hassled by the police. Now the police don't interfere with me," he says. "I used to steal. Now I'm not going to steal anymore. For me the solution is to stop. I've discovered food and small things like taking a walk and having a coffee. I'm learning how to work."

[There has been a] recent resurgence in the debate over Britain's drug policies which saw Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, who recently stepped down as head of the Royal College of Physicians, call for the government to reconsider "decriminalising" all drug possession. His comments followed similar remarks by Nicholas Green QC, chairman of the Bar Council of England and Wales, who said it was "rational" to consider "decriminalising personal drug use".

He added that he had also been persuaded by an article in the British Medical Journal, which argued that the prohibition of drugs had been "counterproductive", making many public health problems worse.

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The best way to stay above the influence is to get really high

HAHAHA. Brb. Dying of laughter right now.

But on topic, legalize it, man. If alcohol is legal, why not weed? It's nowhere as bad, and people are gonna do it anyways... And think about the tax revenue!

Then again...

10dtx02.jpg

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HAHAHA. Brb. Dying of laughter right now.

But on topic, legalize it, man. If alcohol is legal, why not weed? It's nowhere as bad, and people are gonna do it anyways... And think about the tax revenue!

Then again...

10dtx02.jpg

It also leads to gay incest...

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Why do you have a problem with recreational use?

I'll be the first to admit this is not the best reason, but here we go.

My problem is not with the occasional use of the drug for whatever reasons, specifically if you are responsible with it.

But, too often, I see pot, and any other drug for that matter abused as a form of escapism.

Now alcohol is the same way, probably even more to an extreme. If it was feasible, I would be supportive of the ban of alcohol. But, and I doubt anyone questions this, this is in no way feasible. It is far FAR to ingrained into our culture. Prohibition proves this.

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I'll be the first to admit this is not the best reason, but here we go.

My problem is not with the occasional use of the drug for whatever reasons, specifically if you are responsible with it.

But, too often, I see pot, and any other drug for that matter abused as a form of escapism.

What's wrong with escapism? Sometimes life truly is so shitty that temporary escape is all one has. Lots of things can be classified as escapism. Coming to this message board, for instance. Occasional drug use carried out in a responsible manner, too, which you say you have no problem with.

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What's wrong with escapism? Sometimes life truly is so shitty that temporary escape is all one has. Lots of things can be classified as escapism. Coming to this message board, for instance. Occasional drug use carried out in a responsible manner, too, which you say you have no problem with.

Escapism via a mind-altering drop is a bad precedent to sent. You are ignoring a problem, instead of dealing with it. That is my own personal belief. You, and I am assuming many of you, will disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

In bad cases, using drugs for escapism can create dependencies as well, which is also not something I would choose to support.

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