BQueezy

Prop 19: Legalize it?!

114 posts in this topic

Escapism via a mind-altering drop is a bad precedent to sent. You are ignoring a problem, instead of dealing with it. That is my own personal belief. You, and I am assuming many of you, will disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

In bad cases, using drugs for escapism can create dependencies as well, which is also not something I would choose to support.

Lol, so if people have a problem they shouldn't go to the doctor and get Prozac/Xanax or something to that effect because it is escapism? Prozac itself is a mind-altering drug. The only difference between using Prozac to treat depression and using weed to treat it is that one was made in a lab with science and one grew naturally out of the ground.

I know I posted this video in the thread about this on the old boreds but it's so good that I am posting it again. Please, watch this video. If you don't have the time just watch the first ten minutes of it. It is an excellent video made by non-smokers about the history of why marijuana was made illegal and how it is absolutely absurd to keep it illegal. It also talks about the organized crime that prohibition creates and how it causes more harm than good. It's fantastic and interesting even to a non-smoker. Especially for a non-smoker for that matter. So please, watch this video then check back into this thread.

The Union: The Business Behind Getting High

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007#

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^ everyone should watch that. this video alone is why i don't even bother debating with anyone on this issue anymore. if you think it should be illegal, you're just plain wrong.

edit: this is another video i love:

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Well, I woke up, and what do you know, I saw this thread on marijuana un-prohibition

something drew me in

then I stopped for a moment, grabbed my piece pipe (peace pipe) [they say it promotes peace] [[albeit not in a strictly political sense]] [[[but then again that depends on which side you're on, and how you perceive what i'm saying]]]

but I'm already lying to you

because I didn't start smoking until I let it reel onward for about 35 minutes or so

and before you know it I was watching most of the entire video, for what my attention span was zooming in and out of for

and then it was over

and i had watched it

and now we're here now typing this out to you

did I mention how many people went and built this thing, frame by frame?

i've been PROPA-GANDHI-ZED

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Escapism via a mind-altering drop is a bad precedent to sent. You are ignoring a problem, instead of dealing with it. That is my own personal belief. You, and I am assuming many of you, will disagree with me. I'm ok with that.

In bad cases, using drugs for escapism can create dependencies as well, which is also not something I would choose to support.

It's ok that you're not down with "escpaism" but don't blame the substance. Blame the person. It's the person who abuses the drug, not the drug abusing the drug.

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think about the tax revenue!

This is something I hear pretty often concerning the legalization of marijuana; however, I'm not sure I find it a very convincing point in favor of legalization.

First off, if there are good reasons why marijuana is currently illegal, then it shouldn't matter if the decriminalization and taxation of it would make money for California. For, by that same logic, any illegal activity that would provide the state with revenue via taxation ought to be decriminalized and taxed. Why not do the same with say prostitution or murder for hire?

Second (and this I think is the real problem with the taxation argument), it doesn't seem very likely that taxing marijuana sales could be done efficiently. Everyone knows that there is currently an enormous marijuana industry. It is conceivable that the current producers and retailers (let's call them the black market) would continue their operations even after the proposed government-sanctioned producers and retailers came into being. That would leave your average marijuana user with the following choice: buy her marijuana from her former black market supply for $X/oz. or go over to the newly-opened Pot Shop and buy the same amount of weed for $1.25X/oz. due to the taxes. Gee, from whom will the marijuana user buy her weed? Obviously she'll go with the black market as she can get a better deal by avoiding the taxes. I don't see any reason to think that the black market will suddenly close down in light of new legal sales avenues opening, so how much revenue can the government really expect to make from this pot tax? Not much, I would think.

So I do not think the taxation argument is a very good one when considered by itself.

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California Governor Signs Marijuana Decriminalization Bill

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ® Thursday signed into law a bill that decriminalizes the possession of up to one ounce of marijuana. The bill reduces simple possession from a misdemeanor to an infraction.

Currently, small-time pot possession is "semi-decriminalized" in California. There is no possible jail sentence and a maximum $100 fine. But because possession is a misdemeanor, people caught with pot are "arrested," even if that means only they are served a notice to appear, and they must appear before a court.

That has happened to more than a half million Californians in the last decade, and more than 60,000 last year alone. Every one of them required a court appearance, complete with judge and prosecutor. That costs the cash-strapped state money it desperately needs.

Under the bill signed today, SB 1449, by Sen. Mark Leno (D-San Francisco), pot possession will be treated like a traffic ticket. The fine will remain at $100, and there will be no arrest record.

In a signing statement, Schwarzenegger said he opposed decriminalization for personal use—and threw in a gratuitous jab at Proposition 19, the tax and regulate marijuana legalization initiative—but that the state couldn't afford the status quo.

"I am signing this measure because possession of less than an ounce of marijuana is an infraction in everything but name," said Schwarzenegger. "The only difference is that because it is a misdemeanor, a criminal defendant is entitled to a jury trial and a defense attorney. In this time of drastic budget cuts, prosecutors, defense attorneys, law enforcement, and the courts cannot afford to expend limited resources prosecuting a crime that carries the same punishment as a traffic ticket."

"Gov. Schwarzenegger deserves credit for sparing the state's taxpayers the cost of prosecuting minor pot offenders," said California NORML director Dale Gieringer. "Californians increasingly recognize that the war on marijuana is a waste of law enforcement resources."

The law goes into effect January 1. Even if Prop 19 passes in November, it leaves in place misdemeanor charges for smoking in public or in the presence of minors. Those misdemeanors would become infractions under the new law.

Sacramento, CA

United States

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So, what difference does legalizing it make if it'll still be illegal under federal law? I mean, I understand that it's a step in the right direction, but what can happen with state legalization if it's still illegal on the federal level? This is potentially a stupid question.

Obama has instructed the ATF etc. to respect state laws regarding marijuana and to back off of people who legally follow the rules of the state they're in.

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where did you mention that? ( on the old boreds? not that this really matters)

"guilt and fear are powerful" ??? please specify..

I know medical is legal in cali.. I never said it wasn't.

And yes, you're unclear because you just like many others probably don't understand (or aren't educated about) the industrial uses of hemp.

example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tBjHTmojUc

Its illegal not only because of racism and the Mormon church.. hemp can be used for fuel,paper,clothing.. etc etc

Hemp would put many corporations out of business.

look up Harry J. Anslinger if you don't believe me.

I shouldn't have to explain this to someone debating whether a substance should be legal or not.

do some research & experiment with cannabis sometime.

propagandas a bitch.

I'm not sure I understand your reference to racism and the Mormon church in relation to prop19.

Is the Mormon church donating to this like they did to Prop 8?

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First off, if there are good reasons why marijuana is currently illegal, then it shouldn't matter if the decriminalization and taxation of it would make money for California. For, by that same logic, any illegal activity that would provide the state with revenue via taxation ought to be decriminalized and taxed. Why not do the same with say prostitution or murder for hire?

I'm not down with murder for hire, but I'd be in favor of legal prostitution. It would be safer, cleaner, and taxable. That could be an entirely new "issues" thread, but as far as illegal activities being legalized for tax benefits, I think prostitution should be OK while murder for hire should not. Not that I'm banging the classy ladies from SF's Tenderloin, but somebody is and we may as well tax his ass. I already voted (by mail) to legalize that shizz. I don't smoke now, but have smoked in the past. I also wouldn't want my kids all smoked up all the time, but I've smoked with my wife's dad a few times and found it to be fun. It's almost like having that first beer with your parents. Hopefully legalizing pot won't be a gateway for kids to snort lines of cocaine off their mothers' cracks.

Also, Zigs, not to be all grammar Nazi on you, but you need to learn the difference between its and it's. Please? For someone who is dropping semi-colons and high-brow prose, I would think the possessive form of it would be no problem.

Its = Possessive

It's = It is

I am going to be the enemy and say no.

This country doesn't need more people doing weed. I know plenty of people who haven't done it because its illegal. (including myself)

Although I think its obvious, i'll point out that I never implied smoking was anywhere near the severity of heroin.

First, as I mentioned before, yes people will still get high. But MORE people will get high if its legal. Guilt and fear are powerful.

Second, how the law came into be doesn't mean the law itself is the wrong one. People have done plenty of right things for plenty of wrong reasons. As silly as the reasons Anslinger used to sell the law, its moot.

Now, I have no problems with the plant. Only problems with its (YAY!! YOU USED IT CORRECTLY!!) use as a recreational drug. As it is now, its (GODDAMMIT!!!!) readily available to high school/college students; and unless your (DOUBLE GODDAMMIT!!!) a complete idiot, you are (Why not just use 'your' again?) not getting in trouble for it.

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Irv Rosenfeld Testimony For Medical Marijuana

great video that goes over most marijuana arguments

from one guy who has been smoking medical from the feds for over 25 years

He is 1 of 5 patients that remain of the original group of medical marijuana patients

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Told ya guys. If you can't convince your mom why this is a good idea, i don't know how you could convince the rest of the state. Surprisingly, minorities didn't even want this and they are the ones who are arrested disproportionally the most.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/la-me-pot-20101103-1,0,4862242.story?track=rss

Doesnt look like it'll lose by a landslide though... if it just loses by 56 points or less, then that bodes well for a better proposition with more specific wording and initiatives for 2012.

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