BQueezy

Prop 19: Legalize it?!

114 posts in this topic

still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument in favour of legalization.

put away your pipes and turn down your low-rent reggae for a second, try to smash some of the few remaining neurons together and come up with one or this entire subject is moot.

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still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument in favour of legalization.

put away your pipes and turn down your low-rent reggae for a second, try to smash some of the few remaining neurons together and come up with one or this entire subject is moot.

I haven't smoked weed in months and barely do when I do. I support legalization for several reasons.

Marijuana is no more harmful (some would argue less harmful) than alcohol to the body and the mind.

It has great uses for medical purposes (and not all of us can get medical cards)

It could be taxed to bring in billions of tax dollars and jobs.

It would lower incarceration costs (not to mention FDA etc.) and let the authorities focus on more important issues

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still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument in favour of legalization.

put away your pipes and turn down your low-rent reggae for a second, try to smash some of the few remaining neurons together and come up with one or this entire subject is moot.

sometimes its hard to distinguish between a troll and/or a dumbass

neuron transmitters flare not smash

cannabinoids are taken in by the brain not destroying any cells, we have cannabinoid receptors for this

smoking anything affects the lungs but edible cannabis has no adverse health effects

so the whole pot makes you stupid shit is getting old

and i'm still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument on why it should stay illegal

put away your propaganda, whatever you type in this thread is moot.

you're obviously not educated enough to debate legalization

Ben listed many good reasons above

you could also look up the industrial uses of hemp and Harry J Anslinger

maybe after researching you'll understand why its a harmless plant that helps people

but destroys lives because of fucking ridiculous laws

watch this

you're paying for a millionaires weed

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

lets do an experiment

we could make a tiny chat

you go on cam and so will I

you drink a shit ton of alcohol

and i'll face a whole quarter

we can do tests or drive our vehicles

lets see who is more coherent

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still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument in favour of legalization.

put away your pipes and turn down your low-rent reggae for a second, try to smash some of the few remaining neurons together and come up with one or this entire subject is moot.

I'm just curious, do you think cigarettes should be illegal?

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sometimes its hard to distinguish between a troll and/or a dumbass

neuron transmitters flare not smash

:rolleyes:

edible cannabis

:rolleyes:

and i'm still waiting for a coherent, cogent argument on why it should stay illegal

it's a drug with serious mood and mind-altering effects on it's users. every drug with similar effects requires a prescription as treatment for a particular condition, and if marijuana is a legitimate treatment for the symptoms of various conditions (something i question, certainly to the degree it's currently being prescribed) it should be available by prescription. sure. but we don't allow drugs with serious mood and mind-altering effects to be used "for fun" because such widespread use has an adverse effects on society, and for no good reason beyond "people like it".

:: proponents like to argue that marijuana isn't as bad in terms of it's effects, both on individual health and social strain, as substances like alcohol; and they're probably right. but if we accept that, for instance, alcohol (or prescription drug abuse, or cigarette use) is already a major problem (and it is), the case for compounding the problems it causes by throwing the social weight of yet another "legal" (read: even more widely used and abused) drug on top of them becomes very difficult to make.

until proponents of marijuana can compellingly answer the following question, they're facing a serious uphill march towards getting their drug of choice into the legal mainstream:

given that we have such a problem already in this country with alcohol abuse, why should we willingly allow another easily-abused mood and mind-altering drug into wider, legal circulation?

:: proponents also like to argue that legalizing, selling and taxing marijuana would bring in huge revenues in the form of new taxes; but drugs are above all a social issue, not an economic one. the logic that brings them this argument is dangerously broad.

:: proponents also argue that legalizing marijuana would decrease the strain on our penal system. so would legalizing murder. a clearly inadequate line of logic.

so those are the 3 biggest arguments for legalization right out the window. what else do you have?

I'm just curious, do you think cigarettes should be illegal?

in a perfect world? yes. as should alcohol. but these are practical impossibilities, given the cultural significance attained by these drugs over human history and their subsequent widespread use. the focus therefore should be on managing the difficulties these drugs already pose, rather than adding to their huge social cost with yet another "legal" drug that's a sort of midway point between the 2.

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Anyone?

Obama's AG, Eric Holder, has said he will not commit federal resources to marijuana interdiction in states have either legalized it outright or have legalized it for medical use. Basically, they won't be enforcing the Controlled Substances Act in states that have legalized it because it amounts to a violation of the 10th Amendment which confers rights and powers not specifically enumerated in the constitution to the several states. /law school education.

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:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

it's a drug with serious mood and mind-altering effects on it's users. every drug with similar effects requires a prescription as treatment for a particular condition, and if marijuana is a legitimate treatment for the symptoms of various conditions (something i question, certainly to the degree it's currently being prescribed) it should be available by prescription. sure. but we don't allow drugs with serious mood and mind-altering effects to be used "for fun" because such widespread use has an adverse effects on society, and for no good reason beyond "people like it".

:: proponents like to argue that marijuana isn't as bad in terms of it's effects, both on individual health and social strain, as substances like alcohol; and they're probably right. but if we accept that, for instance, alcohol (or prescription drug abuse, or cigarette use) is already a major problem (and it is), the case for compounding the problems it causes by throwing the social weight of yet another "legal" (read: even more widely used and abused) drug on top of them becomes very difficult to make.

until proponents of marijuana can compellingly answer the following question, they're facing a serious uphill march towards getting their drug of choice into the legal mainstream:

given that we have such a problem already in this country with alcohol abuse, why should we willingly allow another easily-abused mood and mind-altering drug into wider, legal circulation?

:: proponents also like to argue that legalizing, selling and taxing marijuana would bring in huge revenues in the form of new taxes; but drugs are above all a social issue, not an economic one. the logic that brings them this argument is dangerously broad.

:: proponents also argue that legalizing marijuana would decrease the strain on our penal system. so would legalizing murder. a clearly inadequate line of logic.

so those are the 3 biggest arguments for legalization right out the window. what else do you have?

in a perfect world? yes. as should alcohol. but these are practical impossibilities, given the cultural significance attained by these drugs over human history and their subsequent widespread use. the focus therefore should be on managing the difficulties these drugs already pose, rather than adding to their huge social cost with yet another "legal" drug that's a sort of midway point between the 2.

Smoking pot =/= murder.

You're fucking retarded.

Marijuana is victimless. It's like drinking coffee.

So should we make coffee illegal?

How about sex? That's mind-altering.

In the thread on the old boreds, we answered your questions thoroughly, providing statistical evidence and sound logic. The only reason you're still here is to play devil's advocate. Unfortunately, you're not very good at it.

This is the status quo right now: Pot is illegal, albeit (mostly) decriminalized. Mexican drug cartels biggest income is marijuana. They make millions, if not billions of dollars off of Americans. They use that money to continue to rape, kill, and terrify Mexico.

Here's the alternate: Marijuana becomes legal. The US makes millions of dollars in tax revenue, the justice system shifts their attention to things like murder. The penal system saves millions. Drug dealers/Mexican cartel become less powerful.

So what are you for?

I'm not saying prop 19 was waterproof. It was flawed, but marijuana's legalization is inevitable. It seems to bother you. That makes me happy.

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I have come down to the realization that people that still think it should be illegal are either retarded or stubborn, most likely both.

Retarded in the idea that they believe it is harmful to society, when I guarantee more people around them in their everyday life smoke than they can possibly imagine. I find people everyday at my work, one of the biggest businesses in San Diego, that smoke. The idea that stoners are not productive is very, very idiotic. I am 100x less productive when I drink as opposed to when I smoke, and I can say the same for just about all the people I know that smoke and drink.

They are stubborn in the idea that they live in the 1930's and believe that prohibition actually works. The amount of scientific data to disprove all the ridiculous notions of the past is there (ever seen Reefer Madness?), but these people look past it and still say it's bad for you.

What better reason to make it legal than we've been lied to about weed our whole life from every institution out there?

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I'd like to know what books, movies, tv shows, video-games, and websites Blackstar likes.

It'd be interesting to see how many of those creatives used marijuana.

So comon', Blackstar. Do you like Tarantino? How about South Park? Brad Pitt? Leo? Joseph Gordon Levitt? David Foster Wallace? Benjamin Franklin?

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Agreed.

I have no problem with people not smoking marijuana.

I do have a problem when they think they have the right to stop me.

I don't like drinking coffee.

I don't stop people from drinking coffee.

Blackstar, you've made it abundantly clear that you don't want to have a discussion, you just want to blindly argue.

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:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

it's a drug with serious mood and mind-altering effects on it's users. every drug with similar effects requires a prescription as treatment for a particular condition, and if marijuana is a legitimate treatment for the symptoms of various conditions (something i question, certainly to the degree it's currently being prescribed) it should be available by prescription. sure. but we don't allow drugs with serious mood and mind-altering effects to be used "for fun" because such widespread use has an adverse effects on society, and for no good reason beyond "people like it".

:: proponents like to argue that marijuana isn't as bad in terms of it's effects, both on individual health and social strain, as substances like alcohol; and they're probably right. but if we accept that, for instance, alcohol (or prescription drug abuse, or cigarette use) is already a major problem (and it is), the case for compounding the problems it causes by throwing the social weight of yet another "legal" (read: even more widely used and abused) drug on top of them becomes very difficult to make.

until proponents of marijuana can compellingly answer the following question, they're facing a serious uphill march towards getting their drug of choice into the legal mainstream:

given that we have such a problem already in this country with alcohol abuse, why should we willingly allow another easily-abused mood and mind-altering drug into wider, legal circulation?

:: proponents also like to argue that legalizing, selling and taxing marijuana would bring in huge revenues in the form of new taxes; but drugs are above all a social issue, not an economic one. the logic that brings them this argument is dangerously broad.

:: proponents also argue that legalizing marijuana would decrease the strain on our penal system. so would legalizing murder. a clearly inadequate line of logic.

so those are the 3 biggest arguments for legalization right out the window. what else do you have?

in a perfect world? yes. as should alcohol. but these are practical impossibilities, given the cultural significance attained by these drugs over human history and their subsequent widespread use. the focus therefore should be on managing the difficulties these drugs already pose, rather than adding to their huge social cost with yet another "legal" drug that's a sort of midway point between the 2.

Murder is not the same thing as someone smoking pot. There is no victim, you are not infringing upon anyone elses life or rights. It's a non-violent, victimless, pointless, "crime". You want to talk about an inadequate line of logic? Stop comparing apples and oranges.

It is the responsibility of the government to protect our citizens and do what is in our best interest, and I think that's what you're getting at by asking why we should legalize something that could have negative effects. I don't like that argument though and feel that government is too broad in that sense. Potato chips can cause heart disease, obesity etc. if they aren't eaten in moderation. Should we outlaw those also? They have potential negative effects and they are addictive. That would be absurd, wouldn't it?

It is ultimately up to the individual to take good care of their mind/body. We are adults and are capable of making decisions. That's why we have a drinking and smoking age. Why should it be any different with pot? I think the governments role is to inform and regulate, tax, and ensure quality. But to take away our right just because is silly.

And the facts are, in a broken economy with a huge deficit. There is a potential for a huge amount of jobs and a huge amount of tax income. We're missing the boat on this one.

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Smoking pot =/= murder.

In the thread on the old boreds, we answered your questions thoroughly, providing statistical evidence and sound logic.

how could you answer my questions with "sound logic" if you don't understand that i wasn't comparing marijuana to murder, but rather pointing out that that sort of argument could just as easily be applied to any current crime with the same "conclusion", via a reductio ad absurdum. i seem to recall a similar misunderstanding on the previous boards.

"if we legalize X, not prosecuting X will save us time/money/effort!" is not a good argument in and of itself because you could hypothetically (as i did in my previous post as an example) use anything currently illegal for X: marijuana, murder, land mines, etc. in the same logical form and reach the same "cogent" "conclusion".

this argument fails to get at the underlying point of "whether or not X is good or bad", focusing instead on how nice it'd be for our free time/wallet/brains if we just made X legal. as such it, like the others, isn't very compelling.

do you follow?

it's pretty obvious that proponents of marijuana don't have much of a case, since every time i enter one of these threads and ask for one, not only do they fail to provide it but they go well out of their way to throw a tantrum of ad hominems. that tells me all i need to know about the insecurity behind their assertions.

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how could you answer my questions with "sound logic" if you don't understand that i wasn't comparing marijuana to murder, but rather pointing out that that sort of argument could just as easily be applied to any current crime with the same "conclusion", via a reductio ad absurdum. i seem to recall a similar misunderstanding on the previous boards.

"if we legalize X, not prosecuting X will save us time/money/effort!" is not a good argument in and of itself because you could hypothetically (as i did in my previous post as an example) use anything currently illegal for X: marijuana, murder, land mines, etc. in the same logical form and reach the same "cogent" "conclusion".

this argument fails to get at the underlying point of "whether or not X is good or bad", focusing instead on how nice it'd be for our free time/wallet/brains if we just made X legal. as such it, like the others, isn't very compelling.

do you follow?

it's pretty obvious that proponents of marijuana don't have much of a case, since every time i enter one of these threads and ask for one, not only do they fail to provide it but they go well out of their way to throw a tantrum of ad hominems. that tells me all i need to know about the insecurity behind their assertions.

So what do you consider to be "good?"

You just said it's not decided by money, free-time, or mental health.

Please, elaborate. What's something you do that is "good?"

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This is the status quo right now: Pot is illegal, albeit (mostly) decriminalized. Mexican drug cartels biggest income is marijuana. They make millions, if not billions of dollars off of Americans. They use that money to continue to rape, kill, and terrify Mexico.

don't they make a lot of money from cocaine too? is that in any way a compelling argument in favour of legalizing cocaine?

more. bad. arguments.

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Cocaine is PHYSICALLY addictive, causes arrhythmia, terrors, withdrawal symptoms, and when overdosed, kills.

Cocaine =/= Marijuana.

EDIT: What you're failing to realize, is that Marijuana is in an entirely type of "drug." Nobody dies from it, it's the equivalent of coffee.

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Cocaine is PHYSICALLY addictive, causes arrhythmia, terrors, withdrawal symptoms, and when overdosed, kills.

Cocaine =/= Marijuana.

if you're not capable of understanding the difference between talking about a thing and talking about arguments for a thing, please don't respond to my future posts.

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don't they make a lot of money from cocaine too? is that in any way a compelling argument in favour of legalizing cocaine?

more. bad. arguments.

You seem to have no understanding of Marijuana as a drug. You cannot overdose, it is not physically addictive, and actually has HEALTH AND MEDICAL BENEFITS.

Your argument stated above makes no sense. You're comparing violent crimes to a non violent offense. You're comparing things that are obviously harmful (landmines?) to something so passive as pot. Let's look at Europe where pot and drinking aren't treated as such a big deal. Do they have such problems there?

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Fuck you.

You throw out free-flowing, amorphous arguments like, "well, hey, they make money off cocaine too."

Then when I argue the fact, you say that you were arguing the "idea," not the actual thing.

Man up, fucker.

Say what you mean. I understand the idea you're trying to get across that the same frame of logic could possibly make cocaine (or others) legal. The day that cocaine (or heroin, or any other addictive and lethal drug) legalization provides more pros then cons is a day that will never happen.

Get it through your fucking head. Marijuana is in an entirely different class then any other drug you will continue to argue about.

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if you're not capable of understanding the difference between talking about a thing and talking about arguments for a thing, please don't respond to my future posts.

If you're not capable of providing an argument that actually makes sense, then don't post in this thread. You're arguing the concept, versus the reality. You can sit around and use hypothetical arguments all you want, but until you actually look at the facts, you're just blowing hot air.

You have provided NO EXAMPLES THAT MAKE SENSE. Please, enlighten us.

edit: You cannot possibly say "That logic doesn't work for everything, so it can't work for one thing."

That is idiotic.

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Fuck you.

You throw out free-flowing, amorphous arguments like, "well, hey, they make money off cocaine too."

that wasn't an argument. that was me pointing out why the argument you employed was poor.

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No it wasn't.

You're countering my argument with flawed logic.

Take marijuana as something in itself, then you might understand.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to differentiate marijuana from cocaine, heroin, meth and any other illegal drug.

"JUST BECAUSE IT WORKS WITH ONE THING, DOESN'T MEAN IT WORKS WITH THE OTHER."

It's like saying, hey, this circle fits in this circular hole, it must fit everywhere.

Throwing out "what ifs" are counterproductive and just expose you for the immovable darsh that you are.

I'd love to know if you took debate in high-school or college, I bet you'd get absolutely destroyed.

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