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drew_willy

Obama's Current Term

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Over the years, Obama has held different opinions on the subject. In 1996, he supported gay marriage, but held a different opinion in 2004.

“What I believe is that marriage is between a man and a woman … What I believe, in my faith, is that a man and a woman, when they get married, are performing something before God, and it’s not simply the two persons who are meeting,” he said when running for the Senate.

In 2008, he supported civil unions, but did not support gay marriage.

"My feelings about this are constantly evolving. I struggle with this. At this point, what I’ve said is, is that my baseline is a strong civil union that provides them the protections and the legal rights that married couples have,” he said just two months after telling liberal bloggers that he was "unwilling to sign on to same-sex marriage."

In May, however, he reverted to his 1996 position and came out in support of gay marriage, causing a backlash from black churches.

220px-Mitt_Romney_by_Gage_Skidmore_6.jpg

John-Kerry.jpg

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Some observations about Cassidy's post:

Yes, gun rights are off the table. There will not be a gun ban in this country. The south would (literally) rise again and start a violence infused revolution. I know dozens of people down here who would pick up a gun without a second thought and go after every person within earshot that would pass such a ban.

I'm not sure this country is ready to pass gay marriage at the federal level. I'm not saying it would be similar to the above situation, but there would be violence to some degree in states like Texas, Alabama, and Georgia. There's handfuls of people in these areas that legitimately hate gay people and would lose their shit if that got passed. A lot of hate crimes would happen. And I'm not talking about older people. I'm also talking about young people...as young as 15 or 16. I talked to a high school senior the other day who told me frankly that he was scared to death of gay men and wished they would all die or at least leave the country. This guy's a weekly churchgoer too.

I think we're looking at another 10 years before we can talk about country-wide gay marriage. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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Children killed by US drone strikes in Pakistan & Yemen

PAKISTAN

Name | Age | Gender

Noor Aziz | 8 | male

Abdul Wasit | 17 | male

Noor Syed | 8 | male

Wajid Noor | 9 | male

Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male

Ayeesha | 3 | female

Qari Alamzeb | 14| male

Shoaib | 8 | male

Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male

Tariq Aziz | 16 | male

Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male

Maezol Khan | 8 | female

Nasir Khan | male

Naeem Khan | male

Naeemullah | male

Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male

Azizul Wahab | 15 | male

Fazal Wahab | 16 | male

Ziauddin | 16 | male

Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male

Fazal Hakim | 19 | male

Ilyas | 13 | male

Sohail | 7 | male

Asadullah | 9 | male

khalilullah | 9 | male

Noor Mohammad | 8 | male

Khalid | 12 | male

Saifullah | 9 | male

Mashooq Jan | 15 | male

Nawab | 17 | male

Sultanat Khan | 16 | male

Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male

Noor Mohammad | 15 | male

Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male

Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male

Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male

Abdullah | 18 | male

Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male

Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male

Shahbuddin | 15 | male

Yahya Khan | 16 |male

Rahatullah |17 | male

Mohammad Salim | 11 | male

Shahjehan | 15 | male

Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male

Bakht Muneer | 14 | male

Numair | 14 | male

Mashooq Khan | 16 | male

Ihsanullah | 16 | male

Luqman | 12 | male

Jannatullah | 13 | male

Ismail | 12 | male

Taseel Khan | 18 | male

Zaheeruddin | 16 | male

Qari Ishaq | 19 | male

Jamshed Khan | 14 | male

Alam Nabi | 11 | male

Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male

Rahmatullah | 14 | male

Abdus Samad | 17 | male

Siraj | 16 | male

Saeedullah | 17 | male

Abdul Waris | 16 | male

Darvesh | 13 | male

Ameer Said | 15 | male

Shaukat | 14 | male

Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male

Salman | 12 | male

Fazal Wahab | 18 | male

Baacha Rahman | 13 | male

Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male

Iftikhar | 17 | male

Inayatullah | 15 | male

Mashooq Khan | 16 | male

Ihsanullah | 16 | male

Luqman | 12 | male

Jannatullah | 13 | male

Ismail | 12 | male

Abdul Waris | 16 | male

Darvesh | 13 | male

Ameer Said | 15 | male

Shaukat | 14 | male

Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male

Adnan | 16 | male

Najibullah | 13 | male

Naeemullah | 17 | male

Hizbullah | 10 | male

Kitab Gul | 12 | male

Wilayat Khan | 11 | male

Zabihullah | 16 | male

Shehzad Gul | 11 | male

Shabir | 15 | male

Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male

Shafiullah | 16 | male

Nimatullah | 14 | male

Shakirullah | 16 | male

Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN

Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female

Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female

Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female

Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female

Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male

Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male

Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female

Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female

Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female

Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female

Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male

Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female

Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female

Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female

Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female

Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male

Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female

Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female

Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male

Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male

Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female

AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male

Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male

Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male

Nasser Salim | 19

Obviously, these figures don’t include children killed in Somalia & Afghanistan.

If ever these strikes are reported in the MSM, many of these children are listed as “militants,” a word redefined by President Obama to mean any male of military age in a strike zone, so as to disguise the number of children killed by his drone policy. Under this abuse of presidential power with lack of judicial oversight, Obama has escalated George W. Bush’s drone program more than five times over. 

Not only are children & civilians caught in strike zones, but drones are killing rescuers & family members with the “double tap” method, a second strike in the same zone. The “double tap” is considered to be a war crime under international law.

 

So...is there anything that can be done about this? Anyone that will stand up and finally GIVE a shit about dead kids that aren't cherub-like Americans? 20+ kids dead in Newtown and the ENTIRE world stops to take a breath. Hell, within months legislation was passed directly (depending on how much you are willing to believe) as a result of the massacre that is meant to prevent further mass-shootings. Since people are fucking dumb, let me put this disclaimer out there and say that in NO WAY am I justifying, trivializing, or making light of the innocent children that were coldly shot down in Connecticut. I'm merely pointing out the EXTREME hypocrisy/inconsistency of not only the Obama administration, but also of the American people who stand either with their heads in the fucking clouds or buried in the sand. Drone strikes are indiscriminately killing innocent people overseas. I don't give a fuck if they kill "terrorists" this way. Is the collateral damage worth it?  Does anyone realize that violence begets violence? Does anyone stop for a second and think that drone strikes in this fashion create more terrorists than they kill? For you sports fans out there, this is tantamount to bulletin board material. Fuel to the fire. No one hates our freedom or our "way of life." People want to kill Americans because they assume we support these actions and in many ways WE DO.

 

Fuck it. We're all doomed. Yay Obama. Yay America. I've had too much coffee and I want to go home.

 

Oh, and I love this country's obsession with universal equality and globalization when we openly flout international law with impunity. No bother. International laws are for inferior, non-American types.

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well, looks like it's coming down and Republicans are going to come out for it.

They're fighting for it and looking to overturn California

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/28/obama-gay-marriage_n_2783912.html

 

it looks like, when California falls, it might become a federal law sooner than people might think.

Republicans will be in shambles for maybe 4-16 years and won't recover for awhile: their old guard is still fucked up and they can't attract young voters due to social stances.

but Republicans are going to be in support of gay rights because they have to be in order to survive.

Obama, while sitting on the fence, might have actually played the gay marriage thing completely right.

 

also, because of Newtown, gun laws are being brought to the table.

Back in November, there's a post I made saying that the Obama administration would NEVER challenge it.

I don't know what will happen, but I never thought those issues would be brought to the table and looked at seriously.

I thought it would die down.

it sucks it took like an incident like Newtown with little elementary kids murdered when countless other school shootings, Fort Hood, Aurora, the countless murders that happen everyday, or even what's going on in Chicago seemingly everday.

 

but 2 things I never really thought the Obama administration would make happen are being brought to the table

1) gay rights

2) gun rights

 

the defense for having the Obama administration in place versus, say, any Republican would be at least they wouldn't make more bans on social rights OR create more gun laws.

It was playing keep-away, if nothing else.

And Democrats are typically pussies (still feel that way) and don't go on the attack with what they should defend the way Republicans do over everything.

 

Those are things to be proud of right now.

It takes forever for change to happen, but it's happening.

 

Stephen King's Kindle single "GUNS" is a worthwhile read.

 

pretty neat discussion

Colorado Demo to rape survivor: "a gun wouldn't have have helped you against rapist because statistics are not on your side"

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/05/colorado-dem-to-rape-survivor-a-gun-wouldnt-have-helped-you-against-rapist-because-statistics-are-not-on-your-side/

 

very difficult to defend/say that to someone in the most uncomfortable position: a young girl who has been raped, trained in martial arts, and was helpless.

 

At the same time, allowing guns in college dorms? FUCK. OFF.

That it a most moronic idea and I woudn't want to live in one if that were the case.

I have a friend who is liberal, lesbian. against drones, and everything.

But she doesn't get the hypocrisy because she is a HUGE gun nut: she is for the use of carrying a concealed weapon in public places at all times.

That is a fucking disaster.

 

 

Predator Drones

I honestly don't know enough about drones.

I'm 100% for targeted killings of high-valued targets and I'll get lit up for that, but I'm on the fence with how I feel on some shit.

 

Here's an awesome column from Esquire called 'the Lethal Presidency of Barack Obama'

http://www.esquire.com/features/obama-lethal-presidency-0812

 

I'd highly suggest printing it up, reading it at work or whatever. It's a long read, 20 pages in all.

 

the troubling thing is...

1) there's a lack of transparency...and that I get: you don't want to make clear to the public who is on certain kill lists. But still, drones haven't been talked about enough morally. During the Presidential Debates, I was waiting for the Republicans to pounce on Obama for the drones. But it didn't happen.

2) do you trust the people in charge?

3) collateral damage -innocent kids/women

4) Guantanamo Bay or Drones: is it better to detain people indefinitely without trial or just kill them

5) drones are the new nukes -thousands have been killed and it's very, very easy to kill people with these weapons. It isn't 'hard' when it's been that much. Nobody really wants to use nukes, especially America. But drones? They're cool.

6) the dangerous precedent it sets/the future of drones -I trust/have faith in Obama's decision-making and think that he is a good war President in a tough position: the enemy isn't on battle lines, it's in hiding, spread throughout, and also America wants to limit soldier deaths, remove troops on the ground, and drones makes that easier to do so.

...BUT...

what if I don't trust the next person, the next President involved? It is clear that Romney would have liked to have had that power.

How much hypocrisy is involved? A hell of a lot.

How about other nations: How would they use that?

And what grounds would we have to interfere with how they use it?

How about the use of it on American soil? For instance, if Obama wanted to kill the former LA cop who died in Big Bear a couple weeks back. That was a dude who deserved to die and had it coming. But killing Americans, criminal organizations within, how would that go?

7) by killing terrorists/enemy combatants/plotters like this are we, in effect, creating more terrorists?

 

In times of war, there is an adjustment to the rules of war.

War has changed and it's not exactly fought on battle lines like World War II.

We'll never have some 'great' war like that: it's going to be difficult to defend in areas

 

also, even in the article, I was 100% for Anwar al-Aklaki being killed by a drone despite the use of his family in the article.

doesn't matter if he was an American citizen to me as much as the column tried making him somewhat empathetic.

it's pretty clear that he was in hiding, was promoting/influencing American terrorist attacks, etc, etc

He lost his rights and was a traitor, so fuck him. It's war.

I just feel bad for the bystanders killed: that is where it becomes shaky.

 

It isn't black-and-white at all. There's a lot of gray and some sobering information involving kids that were killed.

but those things would happen even with soldiers on the ground, maybe even moreso.

 

...but...

...and this is where my pacifist/hippie sensibility comes in...

doesn't the use of drones make war endless and just create more enemies/terrorists with the bystanders it inevitably kills?

Innocent people die in wars and they have even without drones.

But I really wish America would have a system like missionary/peacekeeping work in place to help build up other nations, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Mexico, hell, even our inner cities. Instead of having the Army be a way to pay for college, there could be this too and a 1-4 year commitment that would provide training: that would promote more trust in America than what this does, give Americans more experience, and instill more trust. 

With that said, why would anybody involved in that want to go to the Middle East and help out there? Those people would be attacked, even if under protection of American soldiers.

Edited by Cassidy

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Anyone that will stand up and finally GIVE a shit about dead kids that aren't cherub-like Americans? 20+ kids dead in Newtown and the ENTIRE world stops to take a breath. I'm merely pointing out the EXTREME hypocrisy/inconsistency of not only the Obama administration, but also of the American people who stand either with their heads in the fucking clouds or buried in the sand. Drone strikes are indiscriminately killing innocent people overseas.

 

obviously the deaths of innocent people, particularly children, are tragic. we should do everything in our power to prevent them from happening.

 

but the biggest step we've made to prevent civilian casualties in our operations along the Afghan-Pakistani border is the very shift you alluded to: a huge expansion of the drone program at the expense of other operations, notably cruise missile strikes or conventional airstrikes. this done in no small part precisely because of the accuracy and relatively low risk of civilian casualties of the entire drone strike process in relation to the other "classic" methods of long-range strike. if our stated goals are to suppress al-Qaeda and Taliban activity in the tribal regions of Pakistan and western Afghanistan, drone strikes are by every contemporary measure the best way to do.

 

 

Does anyone stop for a second and think that drone strikes in this fashion create more terrorists than they kill?

 

i should stress, again, that drone missile strikes are the best way in terms of limiting collateral damage, precision, and overall effectiveness in eliminating terrorist targets. terrorists themselves, al-Qaeda, the Taliban and their sympathizers have admitted the psychological and tactical effect the increase in drone use has taken on their own operations, but more importantly the increase of not just drone missile strikes but data drawn from surveillance by drones has helped us to decimate the leadership of these groups since Obama took office. they're scared to go outside; i'd say that's a pretty fitting fate for people who rely on terror themselves to control a complacent rural population.

 

 

Does anyone realize that violence begets violence?

 

certainly the Taliban and other right-wing Islamist groups don't. we can discuss whether the U.S. should be delving that deeply into other countries' security matters if you like, but as long as these groups are a threat to the internal security of a state with an already-tenuous grasp on it's nuclear weapons, i for one have no problem keeping drones in the air above their heads, at least until Pakistan shows some interest in sorting the situation out themselves.

Edited by Blackstar

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^yeah, that's a good summary

 

here's another thing

the Osama Bin Laden mission

-one of the options presented was to attack the bulding with a drone.

They KNEW that someone absolutely major was hiding in that building and they ruled out that it was a drug lord.

but there were a ton of kids inside.

but, because it was Bin Laden, they needed proof that it was definitely him.

and not only that, but it was Pakistan.

So they ruled out bombing the building with a drone.

 

but let's say someone like Bin Laden isn't there.

and they know kids are still there.

and it's also in a place like Afghanistan or Yemen, where they do routinely do drone strikes.

do they still follow through and bomb it?

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As someone who has extensively volunteered for the Democratic Party and has even held middling low level local activist/leader positions I am absolutely ashamed at where the President seems to be going.

 

I am also regretting voting for him. Not because I think Mitt Romney would be better, but because I think Mitt Romney would have been that much worse. People need to get pissed off and demand a shift away from austerity, neo-liberalism and super modest stances on issues like gun control, peace making and environmental issues. Most Americans want more gun regulations. We aren't even looking at the ones most Americans want anymore. Most Americans believe in climate change. People are looking at libertarians because of peace politics.

 

Most of all, I am disappointed in the Democratic Socialists of America. What the fuck are you doing during your best chance to make a move into actual politics? Libertarians are getting places locally and invading the Republican Party. Shame on the actual left. I feel like DSA lets the radical left define what they are and it ruins their chance to make political moves.

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It's really looking like the privacy issue is going to define how I look back at this presidency.  The whole thing just makes me feel hopeless about the process.

 

Every morning I wake up and see a new aspect of the story from The Guardian (someone there deserves a Pultizer for the work they've done on this).  Between the attacks on whistleblowers (more than any administration in history), attempts to control media messages, lack of transparency at any level (especially drones) and the arrogance displayed in each case... I have a strong disdain for this executive branch.

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It's really looking like the privacy issue is going to define how I look back at this presidency.  The whole thing just makes me feel hopeless about the process.

 

Every morning I wake up and see a new aspect of the story from The Guardian (someone there deserves a Pultizer for the work they've done on this).  Between the attacks on whistleblowers (more than any administration in history), attempts to control media messages, lack of transparency at any level (especially drones) and the arrogance displayed in each case... I have a strong disdain for this executive branch.

 

there's been no debate on it really and that's something I'd like to see answered.

With Bush, it was Guantanamo and the Patriot Act.

I thought that would maybe be repealed with Obama.

 

New Age War

My thing is this: we're at war and it's dramatically different than the old wars.

There is hacking, e-mails (saved as drafts), and the enemy is more sophisticated/secretive: they aren't exactly wearing uniforms and showing up to battle.

and there is nukes involved.

And you're dealing with religious zealots who sacrifice themselves and their own countries have always been at war and there's no end in sight with that.

In times of war, the legal shit tends to be suspended and that's always been the case.

 

My thinking is this: Obama probably ran on a lot of issues that Bush was for.

But then he became President and he was given information and then he realized why they went as far as they did.

The torture and cover-ups? Fucking ridiculous and indefensible.

Going into Iraq? Ditto.

Covering up Pat Tillman's death at first? 

countless others.

 

They had Japanese internment camps in the past.

The Red Scare with McCarthy.

I'm sure there's been more even back to Abraham Lincoln and legal shit he suspended during the Civil War.

 

It's just a long history of fuck-ups and this administration is no different.

 

Leaving Afghanistan

I thought USA would pull out of Afghanistan by now, especially after Osama was killed.

Libya Embassy

total non-issue to me and overblown by the right. A lot of it is just to shit on Hillary for 2016.

I don't think most people that cry 'Libya' could point it out on a map.

 

Drones

Republicans are for it too. Mitt Romney came out for it in the debate and that was a big thing he could have slammed Obama on.

Drones are fucked up in how, if an enemy got a hold of them, could be used against us.

or that small drones could zoom around in sewage systems through your toilet or something (I skimmed that somewhere and thought it to be scary as fuck)

And I understand the value of drones: you'd rather have that then soldiers on the ground.

But a shit load of innocents are being killed and it's only engendering more future enemies.

That's my big thing with drones: it's very impersonal/easy.

but, above all, we don't want future enemies.

And drones would seem to inspire that more than anything else.

 

Bradley Manning

the video he released was messed up and I don't think he was being a traitor.

 

Julian Assange

eh, he strikes me as a douche.

I just look at him and I think 'douche'

 

Edward Snowden

I don't think he really said anything we didn't already knew our government was doing.

And I think it's kind of cunty he runs to Russia for help when that government is way more fucked up/backwards.

At the same time, I'm kind of rooting for him and I'm for more whistleblowers coming out.

Maybe Obama has to set a principle with him so that others don't come out. And that's understandable.

But I don't think what Snowden did was evil or being a traitor: he thought of himself as a patriot and saw something wrong with how far the government was going and how far it could possibly go.

And THAT is something that was never debated or up for discussion.

 

I have nothing to hide personally so I never really feared the government coming after me.

But it's troubling how far they could go.

 

I think that the issue of everybody possibly being spied on is touchy and could make someone paranoid.

I don't think the government is watching me jerk off 3 times a day.

 

National Defense Authorization Act

probably the really most messed up/vague thing.

 

the Media

you look at other nations and they'll send you to jail for criticizing their dictator/king or whatever.

they don't allow access to Youtube.

or just fear Social Media and how it organizes people and makes them more aware so as to inspire a revolution.

It's an awesome thing.

 

but there's definitely hacking of information that is being done to expose secrets.

and any government would want to protect and be fearful of that.

 

there's bloggers and so anybody can be in the media.

It's different than it ever was.

It's for the better...but there's definitely some bad that isn't properly discussed either.

 

China and hacking

the story that came out about their Army building hacking into America was really troublesome

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/technology/chinas-army-is-seen-as-tied-to-hacking-against-us.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

I have hopes of America being allies with China

but they have a lot of messed up methods there.

oh, and we're also in great debt to them.

 

constant war-Just stay the fuck out of things for once

on top of that, I hate that America keeps on involving themselves with other nations.

Syria, Libya? Fuck it.

 

but again, I don't think it's exactly black-and-white.

there's nuclear bombs out there and I'd want my government going after it as aggressively as they can.

I wouldn't want them revealing every little thing they do to the public.

But I'd also want a LOT of oversight too, which there isn't.

The government having this much power (Drones; punishing the media; spying) just sets a dangerous precedent.

 

---------------------------------------

I'm generally okay with this administration so far.

There hasn't been a lot of successes, but given what they were dealt with, that was expected.

I am way more at ease with it than the Bush administration.

and I feel like a lot of the issues they have could be reversed.

 

but I don't think any nation is really prepared for the type of war and methods that are available today (drones; new media; hacking; future weapons; spying; etc)

Things have changed and there's going to be a lot of trial-and-error.

 

the thing I'll remember most about this administration isn't really Obama, but just how fucking awful the Republicans have been.

really racist and doing everything they can to  deny Obama of any success, even on issues they'd be for. They're stalling.

the memorable thing is just how far right the Republicans have gone even when they got their asses kicked for it and still are (immigration; gay rights, middle class, healthcare, gun rights, etc, etc)

Edited by Cassidy

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It's not entirely about war though.  Andy Greenwald's boyfriend wasn't detained this morning in England becasue of the War on Terror.  He was detained because our governments (read:  US and UK) have become unchecked animals grasping at power.

 

There hasn't been enough controversy on this issue because liberals are normally the watch dogs for this kind of thing and a lot of liberals can't bring themselves to criticize this administration when there's so much of that coming from the Republican side.  The right to privacy is disappearing and it's final blow to the head is being delivered by "the most liberal president ever".

 

I don't agree with your assessment about blaming Republicans.  Yes they've been horrible and embarrassing.  But the main job of a President is to enforce the laws made by Congress and work as Commander in Chief.  Obama has been pretty awful in those two categories.

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Thoughts on the ACA's implementation?

 

 

yeah, pretty awful that the one big oversight that they overlooked was the website and not getting top-notch people on it when they had 3 years or so to make it happen.

It's sometimes the dumbest and most 'little things', like a website.

Sounds like a Bill Simmons idea, but there really needs to be some sort of a 'Common Sense' Committee to the implementation and oversight of everything.

I'm not sure about the effects but I do imagine that

1) buying insurance isn't the easiest thing in the first place

2) because of this, I don't know how many people have lost their insurance or what the number is, however significant...but can they get back their insurance? And, if so, will they have they pay a higher premium because of the temporary loss.

 

It sucks because it is the beginning of a good idea, even if Single Payer was what would have worked better.

The conservative plan seems to me to just shit on Affordable Care Act completely and just keep what we had before, which was shit.

 

but yeah, this is the most embarrassing hit for Obama since this is what he is pinning his Presidency on really.

the outrage over Benghazi was overblown, moronic, and grossly exaggerated. This is real, it effects his credibility/confidence, everything.

 

I thought that people would see that the Republicans were awful during the Gov't Shutdown if they didn't already for being crazy.

but this kind of puts the ball back in Republicans court...this just makes the Democrats look incompetent and lack no backbone (see Democrats going apeshit crazy and fearing them losing their own seats and their defense of healthcare).

Which is kind of what confirms what we already know: Republicans are batshit crazy...and Democrats are incompetent/having no backbone.

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been 18 months since anybody posted here...but...this calls for it.

what a week: easily the best in Obama's presidency given the 2 Supreme court rulings...
-appearing on Marc Maron's podcast (awesome for a Maron fan like me)
-wins for healthcare (his BIGGEST cause)
-gay marriage legal in 50 states
-Charleston SC funeral speech (ridiculously great; Greg Howard half-joked in awe 'this is the blackest moment in Obama's presidency....bringing the country together; shedding the Confederate flag; gun rights challenged a bit)

For people like me, change is so slow. My Obama boner was limp, but now it's up. I'd give Obama a D+ basically...but a lot wasn't up to him.
I see a LOT of obstructionism from Republicans, even to shit they would be for.
But I'm a liberal and I view Obama as basically a moderate Republican. When people paint him as socialist and far-left liberal, I don't think they know what a liberal really is or represents.

I like to view thing in PROs and CONs though with some shades of grey.

PROs
-Police Reform (cameras for cops)
It took until ugly incidents with police for that to finally happen, but makes so much sense.
-not allowing America to go to shit after the Wall Street crash
underrated
-immigration reform
not sure where that's at, but it's in better hands 
-Gay marriage
Yes, Obama/Biden weren't for gay marriage in 2008 when they ran and that was disappointing. That will be pointed out by conservatives that he's a flip-flopper.

Thing is, I genuinely believed he was (even past comments show that) but they were open to changes for gays and not defending marriage really. GOP went further in what they would want to do...it took Biden coming out in 2011 or so for Obama to then come out too. It was a great 'gaffe' for Biden. It was a 'long' game for Obama. It became a 'win' for him and handled well.

Also, when looking at the GOP party, they're losing their shit over what's happening and are so anti-gay rights (even having that weird business law in Indiana to refuse gays that just about every dumbass candidate supported, even Jeb Bush, before they realized how bad it was). So yeah, common sense is clearly lacking.
-Cuba
Pretty cool
-Osama Bin Laden
Might be a 'lie' in some ways, but still feels like a win.
-Healthcare
imperfect and tons of gaffes/hiccups...but it looks like it's doing good and hasn't fucked the country over in some monumental way like it was feared to.

CONs
-Edward Snowden/government surveillance
Snowden is a hero. Difficult not to see or realize that given the changes that came with his whistleblowing.
I'd like to think Obama would acknowledge this and has to defend the NSA as the President and to prevent other whistleblowers...but...who knows?

It's a libertarian issue (some conservatives) but definitely a left-ist issue too that's troubling.
People like my dad (a moderate) to my far-right family members view Snowden as a traitor who should hang...I wish they'd read more into it, understand why he did what they did, why it's so troubling, and watch the documentary.
Yes, we're in a time of war...but what the fuck?!
-War in Middle East/drones/ISIS/National Defense Authorization Act
While I 100% fear/know that the GOP would go much, much further, even to 'moderates' (McCain; Romney) who are warhawks, it's disappointing. Promises were that troops would be pulled out.
I fear drones create more terrorists.

The Grey area for me: any President CANNOT allow any terrorist attack to happen again. With ISIS and social media, and even teenage American kids getting arrested for pulling shit/joining, it's troubling. I think he came in 2008 running on ending the war...but then he got access to what's happening in an unwinnable war and realized a couple things and had to alter course.
-Wall Street
Change/prosecutions never came. Infuriating. 
The inequality between rich and poor is still there.

2016 ELECTION...
GOP is a mess like it was in 2012: not one current candidate is for gay marriage...but Jeb Bush seems like the frontrunner
Good luck running away from the tire fire that was his brother though...and being against gay marriage, etc.
DEMOCRATS
-Hillary Clinton-the favorite...but I secretly think she is a horrible and unnatural politician. The love for her is because of Bill...and because she's a woman. I don't think she's the best though, but she's been pegged that as the one in waiting since Obama got elected.
-Bernie Sanders-the liberal favorite at the moment

the BIG concern for Hillary has to be Bernie splitting the vote.

-Elizabeth Warren-won't run; but I think it would be cool if she did to help guide Democrats to go after Wall Street
-Joe Biden-likable and someone you can emotionally connect to as a favorite dude.

Future Fights
-Marijuana
Legal in 4 states

In Massachusetts, it's decriminalized even for medical marijuana. My mom NEEDS it because she is in poor shape with severe pain for years. But they keep delaying it 6 months for the longest fucking time to be able to get medical marijuana. My mom has been trying to get it for about 2 years now. Fucking lame.

-Guns
Obama lost with Newtown. I kind of figured if zero changes would come after a movie theatre shooting THEN a fucking elementary school, then yeah, nothing would happen.

I'm always shocked when I hear about England/Australia gun laws and how effective they are. I don't think America should go that far...but there's just zero common sense for compromises. In fact, gun laws seem to have increased even in light of everything.

-Supreme Court
I'm just hoping someone steps down or dies (Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas are THE worst). I fear someone might stick around too long if a Republican gets in.
I'm sick of the 5-4 votes even on common sense shit. I can't believe they failed the McCain-Feingold act and allowed that $ to come into campaigns.

-Health/Food
advancements always being made.
Bill Burr is attacking the food industry and is suspicious of certain things on his podcast/in his act
But we're seeing people be more conscientious of their food, what's in their food, having that labeled, how it's made, etc, etc.

-Education
I'd like to see college costs go down; advance 'grad school' degrees and fast-track college programs since it's a scam.
Many people, like me, are college grads that are working jobs barely above minimum wage that aren't enough to live on.

-Russia
I fear what's happening. I don't understand Russia and Putin is a dick. But goddamn, can't we just get along? 

-Hacking Wars/technology
we're seeing it with China. It's disturbing. I imagine most governments would do this. I would 100% expect ours to do so and it would be foolish not to if you were able to. But it's how that information is used. The reports that, let's say, China could shut down energy plants by hacking or disrupt something.

It creates paranoia/distrust that's already there.
-Water/environment/global warming
California is running out of water; people are in denial
Worst thing would be for mass migrations to happen if any water does run out....troubling that Jim Ihoffe is a chairman of a House committee when he's so anti-science.
-'Corporate' culture
Yeah, I'm a cynic and find it troubling

Edited by Cassidy

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been 18 months since anybody posted here...but...this calls for it.

what a week: easily the best in Obama's presidency given the 2 Supreme court rulings...
-appearing on Marc Maron's podcast (awesome for a Maron fan like me)
-wins for healthcare (his BIGGEST cause)
-gay marriage legal in 50 states
-Charleston SC funeral speech (ridiculously great; Greg Howard half-joked in awe 'this is the blackest moment in Obama's presidency....bringing the country together; shedding the Confederate flag; gun rights challenged a bit)

For people like me, change is so slow. My Obama boner was limp, but now it's up. I'd give Obama a D+ basically...but a lot wasn't up to him.
I see a LOT of obstructionism from Republicans, even to shit they would be for.
But I'm a liberal and I view Obama as basically a moderate Republican. When people paint him as socialist and far-left liberal, I don't think they know what a liberal really is or represents.

I like to view thing in PROs and CONs though with some shades of grey.

PROs
-Police Reform (cameras for cops)
It took until ugly incidents with police for that to finally happen, but makes so much sense.
-not allowing America to go to shit
underrated
-immigration reform
not sure where that's at, but it's in better hands 
-Gay marriage
Yes, Obama/Biden weren't for gay marriage in 2008 when they ran and that was disappointing. That will be pointed out by conservatives that he's a flip-flopper.

Thing is, I genuinely believed he was (even past comments show that) but they were open to changes for gays and not defending marriage really. GOP went further in what they would want to do...it took Biden coming out in 2011 or so for Obama to then come out too. It was a great 'gaffe' for Biden. It was a 'long' game for Obama. It became a 'win' for him and handled well.

Also, when looking at the GOP party, they're losing their shit over what's happening and are so anti-gay rights (even having that weird business law in Indiana to refuse gays that just about every dumbass candidate supported, even Jeb Bush, before they realized how bad it was). So yeah, common sense is clearly lacking.
-Cuba
Pretty cool
-Osama Bin Laden
Might be a 'lie' in some ways, but still feels like a win.
-Healthcare
imperfect and tons of gaffes/hiccups...but it looks like it's doing good and hasn't fucked the country over in some monumental way like it was feared to.

CONs
-Edward Snowden/government surveillance
Snowden is a hero. Difficult not to see or realize that given the changes that came with his whistleblowing.
I'd like to think Obama would acknowledge this and has to defend the NSA as the President and to prevent other whistleblowers...but...who knows?

It's a libertarian issue (some conservatives) but definitely a left-ist issue too that's troubling.
People like my dad (a moderate) to my far-right family members view Snowden as a traitor who should hang...I wish they'd read more into it, understand why he did what they did, why it's so troubling, and watch the documentary.
Yes, we're in a time of war...but what the fuck?!
-War in Middle East/drones/ISIS/National Defense Authorization Act
While I 100% fear/know that the GOP would go much, much further, even to 'moderates' (McCain; Romney) who are warhawks, it's disappointing. Promises were that troops would be pulled out.
I fear drones create more terrorists.

The Grey area for me: any President CANNOT allow any terrorist attack to happen again. With ISIS and social media, and even teenage American kids getting arrested for pulling shit/joining, it's troubling. I think he came in 2008 running on ending the war...but then he got access to what's happening in an unwinnable war and realized a couple things and had to alter course.
-Wall Street
Change/prosecutions never came. 
The inequality between rich and poor is still there.

2016 ELECTION...
GOP is a mess like it was in 2012: not one current candidate is for gay marriage...but Jeb Bush seems like the frontrunner
Good luck running away from the tire fire that was his brother though...and being against gay marriage, etc.
DEMOCRATS
-Hillary Clinton-the favorite...but I secretly think she is a horrible and unnatural politician. The love for her is because of Bill...and because she's a woman. I don't think she's the best though, but she's been pegged that as the one in waiting since Obama got elected.
-Bernie Sanders-the liberal favorite at the moment

the BIG concern for Hillary has to be Bernie splitting the vote.

-Elizabeth Warren-won't run; but I think it would be cool if she did to help guide Democrats to go after Wall Street
-Joe Biden-likable and someone you can emotionally connect to as a favorite dude.

Future Fights
-Marijuana
Legal in 4 states

In Massachusetts, it's decriminalized even for medical marijuana. My mom NEEDS it because she is in poor shape with severe pain for years. But they keep delaying it 6 months for the longest fucking time to be able to get medical marijuana. My mom has been trying to get it for about 2 years now. Fucking lame.

-Guns
Obama lost with Newtown. I kind of figured if zero changes would come after a movie theatre shooting THEN a fucking elementary school, then yeah, nothing would happen.

I'm always shocked when I hear about England/Australia gun laws and how effective they are. I don't think America should go that far...but there's just zero common sense for compromises. In fact, gun laws seem to have increased even in light of everything.

-Supreme Court
I'm just hoping someone steps down or dies (Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas are THE worst). I fear someone might stick around too long if a Republican gets in.
I'm sick of the 5-4 votes even on common sense shit. I can't believe they failed the McCain-Feingold act and allowed that $ to come into campaigns.

-Health/Food
advancements always being made.
Bill Burr is attacking the food industry and is suspicious of certain things on his podcast/in his act
But we're seeing people be more conscientious of their food, what's in their food, having that labeled, how it's made, etc, etc.

-Education
I'd like to see college costs go down; advance 'grad school' degrees and fast-track college programs since it's a scam.
Many people, like me, are college grads that are working jobs barely above minimum wage that aren't enough to live on.

-Russia
I fear what's happening. I don't understand Russia and Putin is a dick. But goddamn, can't we just get along? 

-Hacking Wars/technology
we're seeing it with China. It's disturbing. I imagine most governments would do this. I would 100% expect ours to do so and it would be foolish not to if you were able to. But it's how that information is used. The reports that, let's say, China could shut down energy plants by hacking or disrupt something.

It creates paranoia/distrust that's already there.
-Water/environment/global warming
California is running out of water; people are in denial
Worst thing would be for mass migrations to happen if any water does run out....troubling that Jim Ihoffe is a chairman of a House committee when he's so anti-science.
-'Corporate' culture
Yeah, I'm a cynic and find it troubling

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I have been legit heartsick and grieving since, like, 10-11 PM Tuesday night and it hasn't gone away much.
Nothing has made me feel this way ever: 9/11 I was 14, Bush years sucked, the Wall Street collapse was killer...there was no real tragedies under Obama (Newtown). Change didn't come like I thought, but that was obstructionism on the GOP's part. They should have all been voted out.
I can't believe it happened here and THAT guy is THE best we can do, the biggest douchebag and an overtly racist jackass, the champion of the Birther movement. Ho-ly shit. It's unreal. What's the saying? Born on 3rd base, and you think you hit a triple? Yeah. That.

I get the sense, somehow, Mike Pence is going to be WORSE than Trump. He's a boring Sarah Palin. And he might have more power than you'd think because Trump is lazy as fuck, will most likely be more involved  with petty Twitter fights and his business ties than 'mundane' shit like actual policies.

I don't like the who's who of awful people being named to key positions (Stephen Bannon, Giuliani, Jamie Dimon, Chris Christie, Reince Preibus, Newt Gingrich, Ben Carson). Trump campaigned on being an outsider, than named people who peaked 20 years ago in politics to people who suck to key positions they have no knowledge of. It's a joke.

SILVER LININGS
-hopefully the Democratic Party blows itself up. I didn't like Hillary, but this accelerates that...they were lucky to have Obama, but they were saddled with 'safe' choices (Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary) when people wanted 'change' and, more than ever, anti-establishment. I don't see what likable options really are in the field except Elizabeth Warren. They are ALL shit. I think it would have to be somebody COMPLETELY outside, most likely a celebrity. If Trump can do it, then what the fuck? America would smoke the Republicans in EVERY election forever if they stopped trying to be 'centrist'. It's killing them. Stop trying to compromise, be the jackasses, have the anger and urgency.
-disappointing thing is the Democratic Party blaming EVERYONE but themselves...LESS people voted for Trump than they did for MItt Romney, who lost, in 2012. Figure that one out. It's the economy and the anger vote. Bernie Sanders WAS that.
-...I don't really care to hear about how the Democratic Party forgot ALL white people...fuck that. I live in the suburbs, nobody lost their job, and the RICHEST people who live in houses that cost nearly $1 million on every street I drive by all had Trump signs. They're not the ones suffering. Obamacare was hyped up to be a disaster, and everything was OK. Fucking ridiculous.

I don't know what the fuck happens now, but it's terrible. It's the lowest moment in modern American history, for sure. It's embarrassing. Donald Trump acting 'nice' now is bullshit. 'Give him a chance'? Fuck. That. Protests right now are a sign to start a movement, show the world that we won't tolerate fascism, or repeal progress. But it starts with destroying the establishment of the Democratic Party, finding new voices, and maybe fixing things locally. I don't know what the answers are. But hopefully the DMC doesn't stick theirs heads in the sand like they have been

-a LOT of great art, comedy is going to be made now. But I felt like we had already reached a peak with AMAZING shit. The left was in the right, had ALL the funny people, the best jokes, best ideas, best everything: still did not matter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-I get the sense it's going to get ugly. Hopefully there's no violence at protests, but we're overdue for bad shit to happen. People on the right are emboldened now and will most likely meet protesters. We'll see what happens. I have no idea. It's scary. But a lot of people who have never protested before will be doing it for their first time ever.
-we'll have to watch how the Media gets attacked. Trump is awful, facts don't exist. It's going to be embarrassing. 
-stuff I care about won't get paid attention to (Climate Change; Water Shortage; Science; Education; attacking Corporations, tax loophole, middle class, protecting unions, trade, etc.)

Edited by Cassidy

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