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haverchuck

Steroid use in sports

45 posts in this topic

Ok, so we know most drugs are performance enhancing (Dock Ellis can speak for LSD, Ross Rebagliati for THC, not sure if Maradona was really helped with his love of cocaine though), especially steroids. But in some sports, things like cortisone (a form of steroids) shots are used to help players deal with injuries during the game. It may not seem like that steroid hormone is really doing that much help, but reducing inflamation, swelling, and pain from someone is helping their performance enhance. So where do we draw the line?

I honestly don't understand the NFL's "illegal substance" stance on marijuana (I have to assume it's simply because it's illegal in the country, not because anyone thinks Ricky Williams will have better vision out of the backfield while stoned off his ass), but as I'm starting to get older and know more about steroids I don't really seem to give a shit if Brian Cushing or Shawne Merriman wants to get jacked up. In fact, it makes for faster plays and harder hits, which I (selfishly due to the the higher chance of player injury) find more entertaining.

I don't know, I just remember a lot more people caring about baseball when Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds were dinging 70 homeruns out of the park thanks to performance enhancers. I'm not sure where it all came down on the "did they do it?" thing for Roger Clemens and ARod, but they seem to have done okay for themselves and probably could have done even better if we didn't care about their want to put steroids into their body. I think really one of the only sports where it wouldn't be that useful would be soccer, but even then we've seen suspensions from players who want an upper hand.

in short: steroids in sports, you for 'em? why/why not?

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If one player is doing and another player isn't, that's what makes it unfair.

It seems to me that without it, Merriman was always nothing.

Roger Clemens was washed up as a Red Sox for years...then he signs with the Blue Jays, starts doing steroids, and he pitches better than he ever does for the next decade somehow.

IMO, baseball kind of sucks without it: there's not many stars without it.

In a sport like football, it's dangerous to have players that big, fast, and strong.

How much stronger/bigger can they get? It effects the quality of life they have afterwards?

I'm for steroids/PED's if they make it safe and if the playing field is even, but not everybody does it because it's illegal, but because it's dangerous/weird to stick needles in your fucking ass.

But I can understand why players take them...

-the incentive for a higher contract

-makes careers longer

-John Rocker said that taking steroids added 'only 3-4 MPH' to his fastball: basically the difference between AA or AAA or the big leagues

-fight for statistics in baseball (Bonds' was jealous of McGwire)

-disregard for long-term effects (nobody really thinks about that until they're over)

-coming back from too many injuries (Rodney Harrison taking HGH or Favre's painkiller addiction)

In the NFL, they're freaks/gladiators...and it seems natural that they would do that given the violence/pain they go through and how big/fast they are.

Nobody's really checking anything in that sport.

Marijuana is irrelevant...it's just illegal here even though it shouldn't be. It doesn't make you a better athlete.

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There are many unsafe health risks to the players, both physical and mental, that are the reasons for its illegality. Plus, like Marty said, it's an unfair advantage to the players that use over the ones that do it cleanly.

Although to say most baseball players do it is just him talking out of his ass. I don't believe that for a second. At least not anymore...more the exception than the norm.

But I agree, baseball was pretty exciting with McGwire and Bonds juiced out of their skulls. Baseball really benefitted from their shady asses.

Edited by JayG

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Although to say most baseball players do it is just him talking out of his ass. I don't believe that for a second. At least not anymore...more the exception than the norm.

But I agree, baseball was pretty exciting with McGwire and Bonds juiced out of their skulls. Baseball really benefitted from their shady asses.

I don't think I said 'most' baseball players.

But we do definitely know for a fact that more did it in baseball because we had that bullshit Miller Report or whatever.

I'm sure a lot have/are still doing it in the NFL.

McGwire, Bonds, and Sosa helped save baseball after its strike.

It was weird seeing which nobodies became stars or hit bombs (Luis Gonzalez!).

The whole starting lineup to the '04 Red Sox team all had something like 20-30+ HR's each.

It's just a sport that relies so much on statistics/individual performace is where I can see a lot of people doing it more there.

It's an individual sport masquerading as a team sport...no different than the amount of Olympians who have done PEDs.

I don't really care or get shocked when someone tests positive in any sport.

It was the steroid era and guys like Manny, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, A-Rod belong in the Hall with an asterisk to their names (same with Pete Rose)

Edited by Cassidy

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how could you be for steroid use in professional sports? it isn't a sport once you start getting chemical advantages over other players. this doesn't make sense to me. this isn't rollerball

Edited by mychael

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There are many unsafe health risks to the players, both physical and mental, that are the reasons for its illegality.
I don't know man, I've watched a few documentaries and checked some studies, it didn't seem that bad to me. Though I will admit I saw very little about the mental unsafe health risks, so if you have any info on that you could link me I would enjoy the read.

acne, smaller testicles, manboobs, high cholesterol, don't really sway me. Possible liver malfunction is really the only thing I see that's even slightly more dangerous than anything else any one of us could be putting in our body through a poor diet.

Much like other drugs used in moderation,

I don't believe steroids are that horrible for you.

There seems to be a lot of people saying there are long-term risks and connecting them to deaths, but not as many are directed linked to steroid use as claimed, in fact very few if any are that I have found. But if you guys know of some proven stories, I'm down to change my mind on them.

and seriously, I can't believe I just read the argument of it isn't a sport once you involve chemical advantages. Again, we give cortisone shots (a steroid hormone) to injured players to get them back in the game faster. Why do we give a shit when it makes them build muscles faster, and better? We care about their health too much while they're breaking their necks playing the sport, really?

Edited by haverchuck

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i think there is a pretty big difference between treating a swollen ankle and turning yourself into one of those guys on the cover of a body building magazine.

personally, i wouldn't consider someone an "athlete" if he or she got that way with chemicals.

it almost makes it seem like a bad movie set in the future where "athletes" are encouraged to take steroids in order to cause more damage to each other on the field.

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here is a list of people mychael doesn't think are athletes:

Carl Lewis

Roger Clemons

Alex Rodriquez

Shawne Merriman

Brian Cushing

Mark McGwire

Barry Bonds

Ben Johnson

Jose Canseco

David Ortiz

Marion Jones

the list kind of goes on and on and on...

it's funny to see how many athletes have at one point tested positive for anabolics.

back in the 88 olympics when Ben Johnson lost his gold,

over 100 american athletes tested positive all throughout training but were allowed to go on anyway

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this is like if a doctor cheated on a test in medical school was still allowed to have a medical practice.

a car mechanic who dropped out of school but still got hired and installed new brakes on your car

an airline pilot who logged his flight hours playing microsoft flight simulator and flew you across the country

these people are cheating at their jobs. you can give these people prizes for it, but it doesn't earn them the respect that someone who was clean would get. at least from me. not that it means anything.

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I'll be honest with you...I don't care enough about the topic to dig up scientific evidence for you.

But ever hear of roid rage? And guys like the WWE wrestler (whose name escapes me) who killed his family?

(I could be wrong about that last one, but I thought it was linked to steroids)

In any event, roid rage is serious and dangerous. I've seen it.

Yes, the violence of sports is appealing to us, but you're currently seeing a shift in the culture of games like football and hockey aimed to protect the players so they can have a life past the age of 35. Don't you think leaving steroid users to their own devices would be slightly counter-productive?

And don't give me that whole "what do I care about the long-term health of athletes?" bullshit. You can't really be that callous.

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it almost makes it seem like a bad movie set in the future where "athletes" are encouraged to take steroids in order to cause more damage to each other on the field.
see, the weird part here to me is you think it's a futuristic movie, while I call it the past 40 years.

a car mechanic who dropped out of school but still got hired and installed new brakes on your car
lol?

I'll be honest with you...I don't care enough about the topic to dig up scientific evidence for you.

But ever hear of roid rage? And guys like the WWE wrestler (whose name escapes me) who killed his family?

(I could be wrong about that last one, but I thought it was linked to steroids)

A) Alex is going to be soooo pissed at you for not remembering his name.

B ) I'm cool B). Chris Benoit was also addicted to painkillers, booze, and other drugs with tons of problems from concussions as well. I believe the official report says (I could be wrong, cause I wiki'd it) "There was no indication that anything in Benoit's body contributed to his violent behavior that led to the murderโ€“suicide, concluding that there was no "roid-rage" involved"

In any event, roid rage is serious and dangerous. I've seen it.
So is road rage (and we don't just take cars away from people who display it and get them help, rather than ban something completely), so is my moms coffee addiction (bitch will kill a mothafucka gettin' in the way of her morning coffee), you should have seen my friend when his gf made him go vegan for 2 weeks, etc. etc. etc.

I don't know, I believe if roid rage was truly so scary that it should cause concern for anyone ever doing any amount of steroids, Tila Tequila would have been killed by Merriman rather than just assaulted, as I would assault that stupid bitch and I have never gained muscle or done steroids in my life.

Yes, the violence of sports is appealing to us, but you're currently seeing a shift in the culture of games like football and hockey aimed to protect the players so they can have a life past the age of 35. Don't you think leaving steroid users to their own devices would be slightly counter-productive?
I don't see how that would effect baseball, golf, basketball to a lesser extent, most olympic events, etc. so would steroids be fine for those sports that don't include much physical contact? And for the record, I don't see the correlation between taking cheap shots out of a physical game and making sure the physical players aren't bigger and stronger and faster, though I will agree it's probable that more injuries would occur with even bigger bodies out there playing at faster speeds.

And don't give me that whole "what do I care about the long-term health of athletes?" bullshit. You can't really be that callous.
then you don't know me too well when I'm playing devil's advocate Jay. ARod can dry his steroid tears on his millions of dollars.

I expected more out of freedom lovin' Americans.

If it's good enough for two United States Senators, it's good enough for me!

Edited by haverchuck

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maybe i'm just old fashioned, and see have absolutely no interest in watching a game where the action is coming from how much synthetic testosterone the player can inject without his/her heart exploding. there's less skill involved, that's all.

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Phil - if you're just trying to play devil's advocate, then that insinuates you don't necessarily believe the argument you're making.

In which case, I say good day to you sir.

...or good night. Whatever.

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There's a doc called Bigger, Faster, Stronger

My concern would be with football players.

A lot of it is concussions right now...and players struggling to lose weight after they play (the lineman)

Like, the lineman HAVE to be around 300-350 when they play and they have a certain diet that keeps them that unnaturally big.

And you want them to be both bigger, faster, and stronger when one player this year had an embolism and fuck knows what else damage they're doing their bodies?

When a player retires, that player has to start losing weight ASAP, start doing yoga, pilates, whatever.

You just have to think, if you're an athlete, to treat your body like you would a car: you wouldn't put shit in your car or fuck it up, so why would you do that to yourself?

To me, I'm fine with players using PED's, but we're not at a place where it's safe across the board.

There's certain good steroids (cortisones; whatever they give to people on cancer) but as a PED? I don't think we're there yet.

this is like if a doctor cheated on a test in medical school was still allowed to have a medical practice.

a car mechanic who dropped out of school but still got hired and installed new brakes on your car

an airline pilot who logged his flight hours playing microsoft flight simulator and flew you across the country

these people are cheating at their jobs. you can give these people prizes for it, but it doesn't earn them the respect that someone who was clean would get. at least from me. not that it means anything.

Barry Bonds + Roger Clemens were among the best ever at their sports and were already Hall of Famers before they started doing 'roids.

Where does that fit in?

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it means that they blew it. they got greedy, i guess? i don't really know.

it's odd debating the place for steroids in professional sports. just seems like it should be an automatic "no!" in every instance

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I talked to one of the owners of my company today about Ryan Braun because he's a big baseball fan and his house is also down the road from the Brauns here in Granada Hills. The families have known each other for a very long time. He had seen Ryan in October after the Brewers were eliminated and noticed to himself that Ryan seemed a bit bigger than he'd last remembered, but didn't think much of it. Then he noted to me that he had come across Ryan's dad on a walk recently and his dad, who is usually very friendly, was walking with his head down and wouldn't even make eye contact with him... like something was wrong or he had something to hide. Of course, the lid blew off of it this weekend and these circumstantial anecdotes suddenly meant something.

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so generally speaking, we don't want steroids cause it's cheating (or an unfair advantage to some), and sort of because we think there may be long term effects that are bad for the athletes?

can we at least then still let white basketball players take steroids to make up for the fact that they're white? I mean, talk about an unfair advantage...

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Wow...Lance Armstrong's is giving up on the fight and legacy is likely erased. I would agree with this decision except that from what I've read, doping was so common in cycling during Armstrong's hay day that other cyclists were scrambling to cover their asses once the allegations first started coming out. Bummer if you ask me...

Edited by Johann

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