Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
haverchuck

Steroid use in sports

45 posts in this topic

fellside thinks HGH is OKAY in professional sports

No. I think we can't just pretend like everyone who used HGH didn't exist.

HGH builds muscle mass. But we don't know how much it improves athletic ability. I understand keeping a borderline Hall of Fame player out because he used HGH. I don't understand taking a guy who is obviously one of the greatest athletes of all time and keeping them out because of it.

We don't have scientific evidence that tells us what exactly HGH does for an athlete. It would be hard to do such a study legally. But allowing uneducated sports journalists to pretend like they have the definitive answer doesn't seem wise.

Ryan Braun probably took HGH last year. He had a great year. He probably didn't take it this year. He's having an even better year. He won't be recognized for his great season because people overreact to HGH claims. It's nonsense. Ryan Braun is good at baseball because he's developed certain skills since he was a child and improved over the course of 20 years. He's not great because he took HGH.

The fact that people predicted Braun to have a worse year because he wouldn't be "roided up" just shows how stupid this argument has become.

Edited by fellside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HGH wont make you great, neither will steroids. They are supplementing natural ability, albeit to different degrees. Do not take SUPPLEMENTS if you are competing against other athletes who are competing on an even playground.... SIMPLE CONCEPT BRO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Driving drunk doesn't affect the integrity of the game, cheating does.

Oh okay. A corked bat gets you 8 games.

Have pine tar on your glove? 8 games.

Take a substance that we aren't sure how it effects your game? 50 games and a lifetime ban from the hall of fame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are sure how it effects the people using them, are you being daft or are you really this naive?

You're out of your fucking mind if you cannot understand a simple concept - the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc don't give two shits about any one single player. They care about the integrity of their game and how people will react to it.

If people think that cheating is prevalent in your sport you're probably going to find more people that are turned off to your sport/game and consequentially making your sport less popular and less money.

edit: Let me reiterate, regardless of your incorrect opinion, taking a substance that is banned is illegal. Trying to take said substance and get away with it is called CHEATING.

Edited by atila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are sure how it effects the people using them, are you being daft or are you really this naive?

http://www.usatoday....hgh-study_N.htm

http://www.paloaltoo...ory.php?id=7479

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=5159799

Would you like to explain to me how you are sure how HGH effects athletic performance? Could you explain to me the specifics?

You're out of your fucking mind if you cannot understand a simple concept - the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc don't give two shits about any one single player. They care about the integrity of their game and how people will react to it.

I just told you that players get 8 games for other cheating violations. So it's your responsibility to respond why cheating with HGH is worse than cheating with a corked bat or pine tar on your glove.

If people think that cheating is prevalent in your sport you're probably going to find more people that are turned off to your sport/game and consequentially making your sport less popular and less money.

So the reason baseball has cracked down on HGH but not stealing signs is because it's all about public perception? Now that one I believe.

Personally I think it's cheating to intentionally slide into a 2nd baseman off the base path with the intent to alter their throw. But baseball disagrees.

edit: Let me reiterate, regardless of your incorrect opinion, taking a substance that is banned is illegal. Trying to take said substance and get away with it is called CHEATING.

And playing with a corked bat is cheating. So is a pitcher using substances on a ball.

I never claimed that HGH wasn't cheating. I never claimed that it couldn't help a baseball player. I'm just saying that we don't know precisely how much it does. Baseball has decided to make HGH a priority before ever figuring out what it does. Whatever. But the public takes this to mean they can dismiss any player who ever used it. It's irrational.

Do a little research on the benefits of HGH on the human body before you develop a strong opinion within this discussion.

So in other words you're saying I should read old sports writers opinions rather than scientists?

I've read evidence that connects HGH with increased sprinting speeds. That's about it. If you can find something else perhaps we can have a rational conversation. At the moment you've provided nothing but insults and pretty typical arguments that wouldn't suggest you've looked into the subject.

Edited by fellside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I'm telling you to read what science says about the benefits of HGH, how it is widely considered the "fountain of youth".

And public perception is ABSOLUTELY why they are so hard on HGH, after the steroid scandal, how could you blame them?t

I never claimed that HGH wasn't cheating. I never claimed that it couldn't help a baseball player. I'm just saying that we don't know precisely how much it does.

So now we're splitting hairs... who cares how much it PRECISELY helps. I mean, re-read what your posting and what I'm saying... I am saying it is a known banned substance, it is known to give you an uneven edge (does it matter how precise that edge is?), and you're arguing what exactly?

You're right and everyone else is wrong? I mean, what's your point IF you agree that HGH does give benefits. That baseball players should be banned like 20 games instead of 50?

ps: read your articles, the first one basically says they don't know anything for sure, the last one says it helps with running/sprinting and also notates it helps build lean muscle and lose fat (albeit because of water retention - but a result of taking the growth hormone). also, it is a fact that growth hormone helps the healing of muscle tissue and gives you just an extra edge in terms of recovery. not to mention all the articles notate they did not use the dosage that professional athletes use. why don't you pull up some articles on health benefits on HGH and why it is called the "fountain of youth".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though I thought all three articles you posted were mediocre, and none actually strengthened your point at all, this is pulled straight from your 3rd article:

In men who also got testosterone shots, there was an 8 percent increase.The researchers speculated that the boost from growth hormone alone is enough to shave off about half a second in a 10-second sprint over 100 meters. That little time "divides the winner from the last place finisher," said Ho.

also:

The researchers noted some limitations. They couldn't test the hormone in elite athletes for ethical reasons, and they used a smaller dose for a shorter time than reported for illegal use. Larger doses and longer use might have more impact and more serious side effects, they said.

"It's not a trivial thing to do a study like this. I think they did a very good job," said Dr. Andrew Hoffman of Stanford University, who was involved in a 2008 review of growth hormone research.

The director general of the World Anti-Doping Agency, which helped pay for the study, said the results aren't surprising to him and will disprove skeptics who don't think the hormone helps.

"There's been a huge amount of anecdotal evidence to indicate that it is of advantage, and a huge number of athletes have used it," said David Howman in a teleconference from Montreal.

Check out that quote, the guy has to defend the study because of how little it is implying, and actually this third article you are posting is mostly negative on HGH, why did you post it?

Did someone in real life tell you how HGH turns scrubs into all stars and you got mad so you ranted to us about it as if we agree with your real life counterpart? Little bit confused here, not gonna lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're all over the place. So I'll put numbers next to points:

1. Baseball doesn't ban guys 50 games because HGH helps you with your sprint time. Writers don't keep guys out of the hall because HGH got you a couple stolen bases or helped you recover from an injury faster. It's because people are scared to death that stats are skewed if you take HGH. Mainly home runs, average and RBI's. This is what baseball cares about.

2. All three studies, even the last one, give no hints that HGH helps with this kind of performance. I've yet to hear anything that gives such a hint. Do you know of any such information on HGH?

3. Yes I think MLB's bans are excessive. At the very least they're inconsistent. If you think cheating is the problem then a corked bat or illegal substance on a glove should get 50 games as well. At least we know that a corked bat can make a ball go father. We don't know that HGH can.

4. I don't know why you think I'm ranting at you. If anything you've been oddly rude in this discussion. I don't get why you're acting like you're in an argument with an alien or like you've been personally offended.

5. BTW the Mitchell report a few years back actually noted that there was no evidence of athletic/muscular benefit from HGH. Simply enlarging the muscles and organs doesn't necessarily lead to increased strength or physical activity.

Edited by fellside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hahaha #4 is fair enough, I just don't see how you can make such an irrational argument and I suppose it is frustrating me a bit.

3. sure they're inconsistent, I think all those types of cheating deserve the same punishment.

2. the third study talks about sprinting, doesn't it? don't baseball players routinely take short sprints? to beat a throw at first, or second, to beat a ball home? to get under a fly ball? and moreover, i cannot stress enough about the RECOVERY BENEFITS of HGH which will indirectly allow players to perform better

1. i'm not sure what you're trying to get at in this one.

HGH - the closest thing we have to the "fountain of youth" - easy to understand why athletes should not use be using them in sports (especially since, you know, their respective leagues deem it illegal)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why you keep bringing up the fountain of youth thing. The entire reason it got that name was based on misconceptions about how it helped elderly people look younger. Studies showed that it was less effective on people under 40 I believe.

Anyway, the whole argument behind my 1st point is that people overreact to HGH because they think it causes guys to hit home runs and get stronger. There isn't any evidence behind this.

Maybe if baseball were cracking down on HGH because they thought stolen bases and infield singles were too prevalent I'd understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it doesn't matter why they are doing it or really the public perception of how it helps athletes, the point is that it DOES help them get an uneven edge. i couldn't give two shits about public perception, to be honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HGH helps repair muscles and recover from injuries faster. I have no article to back up this statement and I'm not a researcher on the subject. It might not be exactly the benefits it provides athletes, but why would so many athletes risk their professional careers for something that just is superficial ie making muscles bigger.

I agree with the bans, and I think the whole corked bat/pine tar argument is skewed. If you are a multiple offender I'm sure you get a bigger suspension. Plus proessional sports organizations across the board have a strict no doping policy.

Not to interrupt you two or anything...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be seperate football & hockey leagues for players who want to use roids.

Obviously there wouldn't be a regular season at all, just the playoffs (less teams overall)

as the amount of people getting hurt by jacked up dudes would be pretty significant too

In the same way I don't care if a 9 year old asian makes my shoes, apathy for athletes!

however, you guys are dumb, baseball seriously needs steroids. that sport is boring as hell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And have strippers/porn stars as cheerleaders, and call it "XFL."

You know steroids mess you up emotionally and aren't really healthy to begin with? Oh well, Chris Benoit was entertaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0