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prince zachary

Labor Pains (in reference to Christianity)

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so labor pains didnt exist until AFTER the fall of man, correct? so did that mean before that, if eve hadnt eaten the apple, the stretching of her vagina and having a kid climb out her guts wouldnt have actually hurt?

for real though? come on wtf

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so labor pains didnt exist until AFTER the fall of man, correct? so did that mean before that, if eve hadnt eaten the apple, the stretching of her vagina and having a kid climb out her guts wouldnt have actually hurt?

for real though? come on wtf

Pssst. Hey, over here, I have a secret. Religious people don't make sense most of the time.

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I've actually always kind of wondered about this issue myself.

Not that he made childbirth painful, but that he made childbirth?

Cause when Adam was alone, he just stole his rib and boom, Eve!

They were going to get bored and want kids, why not more ribs?

Is it cause Eve beat God to the punch by eating the apple first,

so then he gave her ovaries and a functioning uterus that hurts?

basically, I want to smoke what the OT (& NT) writers were smoking

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what if to have kids, you had to have a rib removed to be turned into a child? you could have a big family if you wanted, but you would also not be able to do thing like play dodgeball, since your organs would pretty much be exposed. you would go outside one morning and the paperboy would take your lungs out with the sunday funnies

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thanks for not answering my perfectly good question? cmon man

I was honestly trying to answer your question. I thought you were wondering how childbirth could possibly be natural and yet painless. I gave you a link about "orgasmic birth," also known as "ecstatic birth," to show you that natural and painless (indeed, intensely pleasurable) childbirth is not only possible but actual. Maybe, before the Fall, all birth was like that. After the Fall, not so much.

http://www.orgasmicbirth.com/

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Now, assuming the painless childbirth theory doesn't refer to emotional stress/sorrow/pain and actual physical pain, wouldn't these people having "orgasmic/ecstatic" births basically be slapping God in the face and defying His will?

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Now, assuming the painless childbirth theory doesn't refer to emotional stress/sorrow/pain and actual physical pain, wouldn't these people having "orgasmic/ecstatic" births basically be slapping God in the face and defying His will?

I don't think so, since I don't think God wanted us to suffer the effects of the Fall at all. I think he permitted us to suffer the effects of our own disobedience, and he simply alerted Adam and Eve to what some of these effects would be.

It's like when your parents tell you not to have sex with prostitutes, since you'll likely get an STD. If you go ahead and embark on a life involving lots of sex with prostitutes, your parents might say "Sucks for you, dummy. Now you're going to get some STDs." If you only get a few STDs, you haven't slapped them in the face or defied their will. You just got lucky.

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I don't see the analogy between God's punishment for eating from the tree and your parents warning you of the risks of your actions. A more apt analogy would be your parents punishing you for sleeping with hookers by giving you std's. That's more akin to what God did is it not? He wasn't telling Eve that she may experience painful childbirth, he said that's now what she has to experience. True we have no idea how painful childrearing would have been otherwise as Eve was only a few sentences old at the time of her disobedience, but I think it was safe to say the pain would not be there because everything is perfect in Eden.

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children;" to me does not imply in the slightest that God is saying you may not have pain and sorrow by bringing forth children into this world, he's saying that is what it is and it's what it is because you ate from the tree. Obviously God didn't WANT humans to suffer the effects of the Fall, but he made it so. I'm not saying he's malicious for doing so (Fellside and others might though), but I am pointing out that it would be silly to think he did not cause it and it was His will. For humans to be above that is to clearly rebel against God's plan, in the same way we do when we lie or do other sinful acts. Would you not agree that every lie told, every murder, every sin is a slap in the face of perfection, defying the will and path God has set forth? He knows we'll slap him in the face too, he even offers his other cheek because he's a loving, caring, forgiving God.

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Jewish Midrash (URJ) suggests that the "fall of man" may actually be a reference to sexual maturity (through the keys in the hebrew word for "knowledge" is equatable to "experience" which also could refer to "sexual experience"), and as such presents sexuality as a special "dimension" that brings the individual from infancy (innocence) into adulthood (maturity). (You can also look at certain peculiarities between the words for Man and Woman (Boy and Girl) in Genesis and their significance in Hebrew)

From an URJ Torah:

"All humans repeat the journey from Eden into the world. As infants they live in the garden of innocence; when they discover their sexual impulse and grow up, they must live the garden forever."

In addition, the URJ midrash also seems to make a reference to the fact that the "expulsion from Eden" is the dawning of human morality and what should be his code of ethics. For to lose innocence is to gain a certain liberty that comes with consequences.

In more modern times, we could speculate that this "special dimension" that is sex could be equated with the concept of Will (θέλημα) and a new set of self-determined realm of ethics as a mark of a sort of collective self-realization, the Æon of Horus.

Although I don't particularly agree with Samael Aun Weor all the time, he has something really special to say about the "fall".

"One must distinguish between a fall, and a descent. The initiate descends to The Ninth Sphere during the work in the Forge to destroy his defects in the inferior regions and then ascend to the Heavens. One wins a Heaven after having worked through hell."

I think this 'dimensionality' of up and down could also be a reference to the chakras and the different 'dimensions' of being. I think that one who does the work to come to understand him or herself will quickly find that there is some form of higher purpose for his/her existence, and that unconventional morality is NOT devoid of spiritual experience or self-realization.

Edited by Savitri

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thanks for not answering my perfectly good question? cmon man

I was honestly trying to answer your question. I thought you were wondering how childbirth could possibly be natural and yet painless. I gave you a link about "orgasmic birth," also known as "ecstatic birth," to show you that natural and painless (indeed, intensely pleasurable) childbirth is not only possible but actual. Maybe, before the Fall, all birth was like that. After the Fall, not so much.

http://www.orgasmicbirth.com/

Do you theorize that the "forbidden apple" may have had some "thing" in it that forever modified the genetic make up of Eve and kinked the insides of her Vagina and that of her children forever?

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